Is there a market for an off the shelf steel light tourer?

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
pwa
Posts: 17371
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Is there a market for an off the shelf steel light tourer?

Post by pwa »

rareposter wrote: 17 Aug 2022, 3:52pm
pwa wrote: 17 Aug 2022, 3:07pm There was a time when Audax bikes were marketed as "Audax / light tourer", so for me they are the same thing.
This for me as well - the interchangeability between "light touring" and "randonee / audax" is almost indistinguishable in terms of bike set up / requirements.

That said, I've seen audax done on all sorts of bikes!
That was always the case. There were people who did Audax on bikes designed for something else, and there were those who bought a bike set up specifically for Audax.
slowster
Moderator
Posts: 4629
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Is there a market for an off the shelf steel light tourer?

Post by slowster »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 17 Aug 2022, 2:28pm (And it's barely relevant, but I do almost all of my touring and a great deal of my other riding on a 54cm steel frame with "oversized" tubes including ovalised downtube, disc brakes, straight forks and through axles. Weight just under 70kg. Inside leg and shoe size available by application.)
How do you find that bike compares with a traditional narrow tubed frame with 1" steerer?
Bmblbzzz
Posts: 6261
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Is there a market for an off the shelf steel light tourer?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

slowster wrote: 17 Aug 2022, 4:16pm
Bmblbzzz wrote: 17 Aug 2022, 2:28pm (And it's barely relevant, but I do almost all of my touring and a great deal of my other riding on a 54cm steel frame with "oversized" tubes including ovalised downtube, disc brakes, straight forks and through axles. Weight just under 70kg. Inside leg and shoe size available by application.)
How do you find that bike compares with a traditional narrow tubed frame with 1" steerer?
It's 10 or 11 years since I had such a bike, but I did have that one for about 25 years, and I do currently have a bike with narrow (steel) tubes and 1-1/8" steerer (and curved forks and rim brakes). For touring, the first was the worst by a long chalk. The main problem was a tail wagging the dog behaviour; I expect the chainstays were too short* and possibly the frame as a whole a bit noodly. The second is very good for fast touring with minimal luggage – it has no rack mounts – and the third is very good for touring with rack and panniers. The area where progress is most evident is braking, and there it the difference made in three decades is overwhelming.

*Unfortunately I'm not in a position to compare the chainstays of the two "narrow tubed" frames. Their time with me didn't overlap.
PH
Posts: 13106
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Is there a market for an off the shelf steel light tourer?

Post by PH »

rareposter wrote: 17 Aug 2022, 3:52pm That said, I've seen audax done on all sorts of bikes!
And bikes sold as "Audax" have become a far less common sight on Audax rides! Those you do see, tend to be older (Bikes not riders), even the 60kg Audax riders are choosing something else, sees to be two distinct types either road bikes or gravel/adventure bikes. I've always used a tourer of some sort, but then I've only ever toured my way round an Audax.
pwa
Posts: 17371
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Is there a market for an off the shelf steel light tourer?

Post by pwa »

PH wrote: 17 Aug 2022, 4:58pm
rareposter wrote: 17 Aug 2022, 3:52pm That said, I've seen audax done on all sorts of bikes!
And bikes sold as "Audax" have become a far less common sight on Audax rides! Those you do see, tend to be older (Bikes not riders), even the 60kg Audax riders are choosing something else, sees to be two distinct types either road bikes or gravel/adventure bikes. I've always used a tourer of some sort, but then I've only ever toured my way round an Audax.
When I started doing Audax in the 90s, road race bikes were a bit extreme for a long Audax. Sportive bikes, with a less extreme rider posture, were yet to come. Steel was still the main choice for most, and a dedicated Audax bike was seen as a bit less uncomfortable than a full-on race bike. Now we have plenty of choice if we want something like a race bike, but more comfortable. And most of that choice is carbon. With some titanium just for variety.
PH
Posts: 13106
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Is there a market for an off the shelf steel light tourer?

Post by PH »

pwa wrote: 17 Aug 2022, 5:06pm
PH wrote: 17 Aug 2022, 4:58pm
rareposter wrote: 17 Aug 2022, 3:52pm That said, I've seen audax done on all sorts of bikes!
And bikes sold as "Audax" have become a far less common sight on Audax rides! Those you do see, tend to be older (Bikes not riders), even the 60kg Audax riders are choosing something else, sees to be two distinct types either road bikes or gravel/adventure bikes. I've always used a tourer of some sort, but then I've only ever toured my way round an Audax.
When I started doing Audax in the 90s, road race bikes were a bit extreme for a long Audax. Sportive bikes, with a less extreme rider posture, were yet to come. Steel was still the main choice for most, and a dedicated Audax bike was seen as a bit less uncomfortable than a full-on race bike.
That matches my experience, though my first Audax wasn't until 1998.
There were also quite a few riders on touring bikes, one of the things this thread hasn't really delved into is that full touring bikes have in general got heavier and stiffer, the gap between tourer and light tourer has I think widened. As an example, the Hewitt Cheviot (Touring) and Chiltern (Audax) were the same main triangle, just different forks and shorter chainstays.
Now we have plenty of choice if we want something like a race bike, but more comfortable. And most of that choice is carbon. With some titanium just for variety.
I agree there's plenty of choice for this type of bike. And that carbon has become the predominant material, though there's also plenty of aluminium and steel does still make an appearance, usually at the high end, and from smaller volume manufacturers, Mason and Fairlight are two that spring to mind.
Bmblbzzz
Posts: 6261
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Is there a market for an off the shelf steel light tourer?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

PH wrote: 18 Aug 2022, 7:55am There were also quite a few riders on touring bikes, one of the things this thread hasn't really delved into is that full touring bikes have in general got heavier and stiffer, the gap between tourer and light tourer has I think widened. As an example, the Hewitt Cheviot (Touring) and Chiltern (Audax) were the same main triangle, just different forks and shorter chainstays.
I wonder if this is as a result of the trend that started in the 1990s for "expedition" bikes? Those tended to have flat bars, sort of mtbs with some concessions to load carrying and long-distance comfort. Now they often have drop bars – I think you could call the Long Haul Trucker an expedition tourer – but the mtb origins are still there. Few of them, of course, are actually used for the long-haul expeditions in remote places they're designed (or at least marketed) for, but then how many race bikes are actually raced?
mattsccm
Posts: 5101
Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 9:44pm

Re: Is there a market for an off the shelf steel light tourer?

Post by mattsccm »

What you are looking at is a very small niche. Current fashions are against it to the point that demand would be small. So, like anything, small demand means small producers with inherent cost.
mattheus
Posts: 5044
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: Is there a market for an off the shelf steel light tourer?

Post by mattheus »

PH wrote: 18 Aug 2022, 7:55am
I agree there's plenty of choice for this type of bike. And that carbon has become the predominant material, though there's also plenty of aluminium and steel does still make an appearance, usually at the high end, and from smaller volume manufacturers, Mason and Fairlight are two that spring to mind.
I would say there is plenty of technology choice! But with so many options, and finite producers, if you are dead set on a particular setup you can find your options quite limited :P
[frame materials, "brazings", shifter type/position, brake type, luggage front/back, chainring(s), cabling, dropout design, tyre diameter/width ... jeepers, I'm tired just typing them ... ]
User avatar
Cugel
Posts: 5430
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Is there a market for an off the shelf steel light tourer?

Post by Cugel »

Although this website is a Large Advert disguised as a magazine, this article may be of interest to those involved in this thread:

https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers ... e-for-you/

It does seem that there are quite a few steel tourers of the older tradition still available, many of them (re)configurable to a significant degree. Not too many with the old fashioned steerers/stems, though. And a good thing too! :-)

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
Post Reply