On my way home, heading south, I have priority which I generally claim by riding in primary position (except when north-heading drivers pre-empt me) and I occasionally get abuse for my assertiveness (e.g. this Wednesday).
Obviously trying to intimidate other road users is unlawful but is there any justification for frustration on the part of drivers who clearly think the give way rule doesn’t apply to cyclists?*
*This is just a mini rant really. As a cycle commuter of over 27 years experience I’m used to motorist silliness
I assume you mean where you have right of way and on coming drivers have the give way line.
You are legally being quite reasonable - as described in the new version of the Highway Code. However, being in the middle of the road won't look that "reasonable" to some drivers - even if you are legally correct.
I often I take the primary position by not being in the middle, but being far enough out to prevent close passes, but by not being in the middle I "look" a bit more reasonable/less unreasonable in the eye of (some) drivers.
It might modify some drivers to be less abusive. To some drivers it will make not a jot of difference through the simple fact you are missing your 3rd and 4th wheels and engine.
From what you wrote, the problem is the driver's attitude, not your cycling.
Sometimes I do take bang in the middle primary position, as that is what is sometimes required.
Phileas wrote: ↑19 Aug 2022, 7:47pm
*This is just a mini rant really. As a cycle commuter of over 27 years experience I’m used to motorist silliness
I guessed that was your basic attitude and I think it's the right one - just get over it, as they say, and we do.
But these priority chicanes are an interesting case in point. I certainly assert my right to go through and what I quite like doing is waving my thanks to the waiting motorist as I pass them. I don't need to but it's a nice way of expressing thanks for their respect of cyclists' rights. In fact, most of the time the cars do pull up IME.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
..and if the other road users' journey was so important that they had to feel the need to abuse you, then why wasn't it important enough for them to leave 5 or 10 minutes earlier, so their journey had some 'buffer' time?
..and if the other road users' journey was so important that they had to feel the need to abuse you, then why wasn't it important enough for them to leave 5 or 10 minutes earlier, so their journey had some 'buffer' time?
Ah, the sixty four dollar question! If anyone knows the answer please share!
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Phileas wrote: ↑19 Aug 2022, 7:47pm
*This is just a mini rant really. As a cycle commuter of over 27 years experience I’m used to motorist silliness
I guessed that was your basic attitude and I think it's the right one - just get over it, as they say, and we do.
But these priority chicanes are an interesting case in point. I certainly assert my right to go through and what I quite like doing is waving my thanks to the waiting motorist as I pass them. I don't need to but it's a nice way of expressing thanks for their respect of cyclists' rights. In fact, most of the time the cars do pull up IME.
My lack of acknowledgment may indeed be an aggravating factor but showing gratitude in that particular situation (i.e. when there’s a give way line) seems almost grovelling. I wonder, do motorists (I don’t drive) generally give thanks for that?
And I admit that probably more than half of drivers do give way.
My lack of acknowledgment may indeed be an aggravating factor but showing gratitude in that particular situation (i.e. when there’s a give way line) seems almost grovelling. I wonder, do motorists (I don’t drive) generally give thanks for that?
Should you thank drivers for behaving as they should? I'll always try to thank those that I know have waited for some time for a safe overtake, but only you can judge whether that's appropriate
Phileas wrote: ↑20 Aug 2022, 5:35amMy lack of acknowledgment may indeed be an aggravating factor but showing gratitude in that particular situation (i.e. when there’s a give way line) seems almost grovelling. I wonder, do motorists (I don’t drive) generally give thanks for that?
And I admit that probably more than half of drivers do give way.
In such circumstances, I find that a nod of the head is a suitable compromise - acknowledgement without subservience.
Re the drivers that don't give way, do you think that some of them may simply not be able to judge a cyclist's speed, which leads them to believe they can get through the chicane before you get there?
I would definitely ride through there in primary to prevent silly overtakes and would acknowledge drivers who cede priority to me (it's common courtesy, I'd even do it when driving). There are a few similar road features like that near me and as yet I've never had problems with motorists at any of them.
Not sure what I'd do if a motorist decided not to give way, I might be tempted to simply stop in the centre of the lane and stop them for a little chat.....
My lack of acknowledgment may indeed be an aggravating factor but showing gratitude in that particular situation (i.e. when there’s a give way line) seems almost grovelling. I wonder, do motorists (I don’t drive) generally give thanks for that?
Should you thank drivers for behaving as they should? I'll always try to thank those that I know have waited for some time for a safe overtake, but only you can judge whether that's appropriate
its difficult to have a hard and fast set rule on it, I wont thank drivers for basically following the highway code/law in their driving around me, I have seen cyclists thank drivers for not pulling out of side roads on them for instance, whereas my view is thats just what they should be doing anyway.
but if a driver follows the rules on priority willingly,and so treats me as a valid road user, Im more likely to raise a hand in thanks. if the driver only concedes on the priority because Ive had to present them with the choice of follow priority or we have a crash, they might get less of a thankyou.
obviously those that simply drive with the might is right attitude often get an appropriate hand signal for their effort that is much less of a thankyou.
You're not.
This is also one of those situations that could largely be avoided with better design. The chicane isn't a great example of one, the deflection is low and it's really quite wide.
It's better if they're only just wide enough for a single motor vehicle rather than only just narrow enough to discourage two small cars.
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Have a couple of those where I live. Very close together having priority then give way on the next. Not had too many car drivers trying to push through but enough to make me stay in the middle of the road showing no intention for me to give way when I have prioriity over oncoming traffic.
In the vast majority of cases, when someone asks "Am I being unreasonable?" the answer is "Yes." If you didn't already have a seed of doubt in your mind, you wouldn't have asked. But in this case it's not actually about your behaviour, it's about others not observing the give way lines. Obviously, they are wrong to ignore them.
And on the secondary question of thanking drivers for waiting, I generally do. It's not an act of subservience, most drivers do it too.
Bmblbzzz wrote: ↑21 Aug 2022, 9:14am
And on the secondary question of thanking drivers for waiting, I generally do. It's not an act of subservience, most drivers do it too.
I guess if you’re someone who gives thanks generally you might be annoyed by someone who doesn’t.
Perhaps my attitude is partly shaped by my experience being limited to cycling only, and probably also partly a personality trait. I do thank people for waiting behind parked cars and the like - I will consider doing the same at chicanes, even though many drivers are only reluctantly giving way.
Phileas wrote: ↑21 Aug 2022, 11:38am
I guess if you’re someone who gives thanks generally you might be annoyed by someone who doesn’t.
When I'm cycling along a narrow country lane and move over into a passing place or similar to let a following driver by, I find it mildly annoying not to receive any acknowledgment. But equally, the main factor in people giving thanks or not in this situation seems to be the weather, so it doesn't mean a huge amount either way.
