When will Eurostar recommence carrying bikes?

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
SA_SA_SA
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Re: When will Eurostar recommence carrying bikes?

Post by SA_SA_SA »

Mjr
The partial quote did not include a link to the full thread post
viewtopic.php?p=1724398#p1724398 so I didnt get the relevance. The company doesn't seem to think its unsolvable yet. The Uk coped without being an EU member before.

In the swings and roundabouts of a large constitutional decision I would expect most people, even cyclists, would place ease of bikes on Eurostar quite far down the list of minuses, so the comments seem another unnecessary dig to me, and generally I think the tone taken towards to Leave voters in forum sections about cycling is spoiling the (cycling) forum. I can't see such a tone being accepted against Labour voters for example. I read a cycling forum to read about cycling . There is also a curious lack of criticism of the EuCommission and they surely deserve some...

All political and constitutional decisions will have swings and roundabouts and people will disagree about which is which is most important and such arguments seem best to be generally kept outside the cycling sections, which I think should concentrate on finding solutions within the electorates choice.
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simonhill
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Re: When will Eurostar recommence carrying bikes?

Post by simonhill »

While Eurostar wasn't on my in or out voting decision, the ability to generally cycle tour and travel was very high.

I spend much of my life touring and Brexit has definitely adversely effected me.

On the day of the result, sterling fell by 20%, much as predicted. This made my upcoming trip to Japan significantly higher and all subsequent trips. The cost of my bike parts also rose as a direct result. Luckily I secured a new frame from old stock before a significant increase.

Freedom of movement is very important to me. I had to restrict my last winter's touring in Europe to 90 days, whereas pre Brexit it would have been almost limitless. Luckily I had an old phone contract, so it didn't cost me an extra £2 per day.

Again luckily we got the COVID certificate problem sorted before my departure date, otherwise travel in the EU would have been very difficult.

Travelling further afield, visa free entry is usually reciprocal, with more emphasis on large or important countries/blocks. We have become smaller and less important internationally since Brexit.

When I see how people struggle to get their bikes into EU I can't help but think it is so much easier to fly, something that many do not want to do.

I could go on.

There were plenty of other things in my yea or nay decision making, so maybe not Eurostar, but certainly cycle touring abroad and cost of parts was very important.

This IS a cycle forum and there are plenty of posts about problems caused by Brexit. Not anti Brexit, but asking about the problems caused to cyclists. If roads destroyed rims wouldn't we be asking about road building.

What most surprises me is how little I hear of the benefits, to cycling or life in general that Brexit has brought. Why don't we hear about all the benefits to sway us naysayers.
Last edited by simonhill on 24 Sep 2022, 1:54pm, edited 1 time in total.
PH
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Re: When will Eurostar recommence carrying bikes?

Post by PH »

mjr wrote: 23 Sep 2022, 12:40pm
Winders wrote: 23 Sep 2022, 10:41am Between rinko and a Brompton, there are other folding/packable bike options available that will fit into Eurostar’s 85cm maximum dimension.
Letting the train dictate the bike type for a tour does stink, though.

Thanks again, Leave voters(!)
I'd rather traveling with a bike was generally easier, but I haven't let Eurostar's policy dictate my touring before or after Brexit. It wasn't a great offer before, I never used it with a full sized bike, it always looked like to much faff compared to the other options.
OTOH - Traveling with a packable bike, does avoid plenty of other travel restrictions that have nothing to do with Brexit.
Jdsk
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Re: When will Eurostar recommence carrying bikes?

Post by Jdsk »

It's interesting and appropriate to explain in a thread such as this why changes have occurred, whether they're for the better or the worse and whether they're political or something else. Thanks, everyone.

It's inappropriate to escalate that into wider political discussion.

Just checked: Eurostar's statement hasn't changed.

Jonathan
F70100
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Re: When will Eurostar recommence carrying bikes?

Post by F70100 »

The number of bikes being carried on the back of motorhomes (ours included) whilst crossing to and from Europe on ferries this year hasn't been any less than before Brexit. Taking your personal effects abroad for the purposes of tourism is still allowed.

It seems to me that Eurostar needed an excuse not to provide any spaces for bikes, and have chosen Brexit. Meanwhile, every other cross channel transportation route is carrying on as before.
simonhill
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Re: When will Eurostar recommence carrying bikes?

Post by simonhill »

I suspect the Eurostar reasoning is that they would be carrying the bikes for a third party and as such the bikes might be liable to import duties. Much like the van load of Welsh bikes recently.

They could get round it by walk on with bike.

Not disagreeing that they might have been happy to have an excuse/reason, but I don't know.
st599_uk
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Re: When will Eurostar recommence carrying bikes?

Post by st599_uk »

F70100 wrote: 24 Sep 2022, 2:29pm The number of bikes being carried on the back of motorhomes (ours included) whilst crossing to and from Europe on ferries this year hasn't been any less than before Brexit. Taking your personal effects abroad for the purposes of tourism is still allowed.

It seems to me that Eurostar needed an excuse not to provide any spaces for bikes, and have chosen Brexit. Meanwhile, every other cross channel transportation route is carrying on as before.
Actually, it's not - there's a limit. This is overlooked for obvious holiday gear.

Most trans-channel trips you take the bike and are present when it's imported - this doesn't happen on Eurostar. You can't even take it (or anything else) on a Carnet as St Pancras doesn't have a Customs ofiice.
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mjr
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Re: When will Eurostar recommence carrying bikes?

Post by mjr »

SA_SA_SA wrote: 24 Sep 2022, 12:00pm The Uk coped without being an EU member before.
It was a different time, before borders were so tight. Eurostar did not exist under that situation and possibly could not exist, with border worries being another reason for failure of previous channel tunnel attempts.

So many of these "but it was alright before" claims are unhelpful and often incorrect: it was more difficult before and the situation is not the same as before anyway. There were maybe two or three cross-border trains a day, with plenty of time for customs checks as rail carriages were slowly loaded on and off night ferries at Dover and Dunkirk.
In the swings and roundabouts of a large constitutional decision I would expect most people, even cyclists, would place ease of bikes on Eurostar quite far down the list of minuses,
Such a long list, I guess it can be far down, but it is yet another and on-topic here.
so the comments seem another unnecessary dig to me, and generally I think the tone taken towards to Leave voters in forum sections about cycling is spoiling the (cycling) forum.
The Leave vote is spoiling cycle touring. I'm sorry if anyone feels that pointing that out is unnecessary, but it seems like it is, with disappointed tourers ignoring the elephant in the room stepping on their dreams.
I can't see such a tone being accepted against Labour voters for example.
This is not party political. I am not a party member. I probably voted Labour in 1997 but I have voted for various other parties since.
I read a cycling forum to read about cycling . There is also a curious lack of criticism of the EuCommission and they surely deserve some...
I criticise it when it's due, but the EU Commission has not done anything unexpected to make cycle touring more difficult.
All political and constitutional decisions will have swings and roundabouts and people will disagree about which is which is most important and such arguments seem best to be generally kept outside the cycling sections, which I think should concentrate on finding solutions within the electorates choice.
OK. The solution to this within the electorate's choice is to rejoin the Customs Union, that multiple spokespeople for Vote Leave said we wouldn't leave. Or at least get the trade agreement to raise the vehicle and sports equipment allowances and allow third-party carriage for them in circumstances like Eurostar. A general election is starting to approach, with parties finally starting to outline their policies, so start asking your candidates for this now.
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Ayseven
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Re: When will Eurostar recommence carrying bikes?

Post by Ayseven »

Brexit is your thing. Nuts from our view in North America, but hey, it's your party. Eurostar just can't be bloody bothered, and do not see it as a money losing venture to ban bikes. Companies always do this; blame somebody else for their own decisions.
mattheus
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Re: When will Eurostar recommence carrying bikes?

Post by mattheus »

F70100 wrote: 24 Sep 2022, 2:29pm It seems to me that Eurostar needed an excuse not to provide any spaces for bikes, and have chosen Brexit. Meanwhile, every other cross channel transportation route is carrying on as before.
Exactly.

And I don't see it changing any time soon. So we may as well use this thread to talk about Brexit :P
Will
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Re: When will Eurostar recommence carrying bikes?

Post by Will »

The criticism of Eurostar in this regard is unwarranted. Eurostar are being prevented in running their EuroDespatch service due to customs requirements caused by BREXIT. This issue affects everyone who wants to send oversized/excess luggage via EuroDespatch and not just cyclists.

Eurostar are not responsible for implementing customs controls, Governments are. Eurostar are dependent on all Governments (British, French, Belgian, and Dutch) coming to an agreement as to how customs control is to be implemented for what is essentially unaccompanied luggage.

I think we will end up with customs checks being part of the EuroDespatch service - the stumbling block is probably who is going to pay for it. I'm sure Eurostar won't want to have to pay for it, since they will then have to pass the costs on to the customer.

Implementing custom controls at EuroDespatch may also require some rebuilding work at the stations to create the necessary infrastructure for separating luggage that is customs cleared (with Eurodespatch/Eurostar) and un-cleared (with customs) - that again will come at a cost and will involve several different station owners and operators. There may not simply be enough space to do it at some stations.

It was reported earlier this year that Eurostar were looking to simplify the booking process and were going to consult the cycling community to help them develop an online booking tool for bikes. That doesn't sound like they are anti-bike to me.

Will
Jdsk
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Re: When will Eurostar recommence carrying bikes?

Post by Jdsk »

And the level of service before the twin disruptions of the outbreak and Leaving the EU followed a lot of work by Cycling UK. And probably others.

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simonhill
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Re: When will Eurostar recommence carrying bikes?

Post by simonhill »

Does anyone know how many bikes Eurostar actually carried? Is it worth their while to make changes to get round the new rules. Are we talking tens, hundreds or what.

This is something I wrote in June 2019:

" I was surprised to read therefore that in April, Easyjet flew nearly 55,000 flights and carried nearly 12,000 bikes. It just shows that bikes are very common on their flights. Furthermore at forty quid or whatever, they are a god earner."
Jdsk
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Re: When will Eurostar recommence carrying bikes?

Post by Jdsk »

simonhill wrote: 26 Sep 2022, 2:26pm Does anyone know how many bikes Eurostar actually carried? Is it worth their while to make changes to get round the new rules. Are we talking tens, hundreds or what.
...
"And there’s the rub of the problem: space constraints. Despite overall tourism numbers to both Paris and Brussels dropping in 2016, Eurostar still transports over 10 million passengers a year. Those numbers are growing. Against this backdrop, cyclists and their bikes account for 0.09% of Eurostar passengers; around 9,000 bikes were carried in 2016."
https://www.cyclinguk.org/cycle/eurostar

About the campaign that worked:
https://www.cyclinguk.org/comment/3106

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mjr
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Re: When will Eurostar recommence carrying bikes?

Post by mjr »

Jdsk wrote: 26 Sep 2022, 2:47pm
simonhill wrote: 26 Sep 2022, 2:26pm Does anyone know how many bikes Eurostar actually carried? Is it worth their while to make changes to get round the new rules. Are we talking tens, hundreds or what.
...
"And there’s the rub of the problem: space constraints. Despite overall tourism numbers to both Paris and Brussels dropping in 2016, Eurostar still transports over 10 million passengers a year. Those numbers are growing. Against this backdrop, cyclists and their bikes account for 0.09% of Eurostar passengers; around 9,000 bikes were carried in 2016."
https://www.cyclinguk.org/cycle/eurostar

About the campaign that worked:
https://www.cyclinguk.org/comment/3106

Jonathan
But how many would it carry if it wasn't such a pain in the bum? Certainly I would have preferred an easy train to most of my ferry rides.

The other easy option would be to change the trains to accommodate more accompanied oversize luggage, although that wouldn't necessarily work because of the low customs value limits, and also the oldest "new" Eurostar trains are not due a refurb for at least 3 or 4 years.
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