Lightweight electric bike

[Mick F]

They're all about twice the weight of my 531c Mercian including mudguards and saddle-pack.

To ride a 16kg plus bike, I would need an electric motor!

[al_yrpal]

I reckon my Ortler Ebike with panniers and the stuff I always have in them weighs about 30kg. I often switch the motor off downhill and down slopes. On the level I use the lowest Bosch setting Eco, and on undulating roads use Tour setting and my gears rarely ever needing Sport or Turbo. Although I havent done it yet I would feel very confident using the Ortler as a very comfortable loaded touring bike. Its very strong and unaffected by load carrying with two 56 litre Arran panniers full of shopping. For a tour I think a second battery would be desirable because the range is only about 45 to 50 miles unloaded.
I can see the attraction of a lighter Ebike but I am sceptical of their rigidity and hub motors for touring.

Ortler Bozen

Al

[Cugel]

They're all about twice the weight of my 531c Mercian including mudguards and saddle-pack.

To ride a 16kg plus bike, I would need an electric motor!

You'd be surprised by how well you can go on a well-made and efficient 16kg bike. On the flattish routes, you'd only notice a difference in the effort required to accelerate it. moreover, once up to speed, small undulations in the otherwise flat roads can be got over a little more easily because of the higher momentum effect of the heavier bike.

Even on the hills, an extra 8kg over a lightweight 8kg bike makes less difference than you might imagine. You do go slightly slower but it ain't by very much, as a time-percentage of your whole ride.

Have a read of this for some interesting insights on the matter:

https://www.cyclingabout.com/how-much-d ... -you-down/

(See part two of the experiment as well, on another web page).

**************
I ride about on a 13kg and on an 18kg e-bike with the ladywife. I try to use the motors as little as possible. I also go out alone without the motor in the bike, so the 18kg bike then weights 15kg. The time differences over a particular route compared with going out on the 9kg winter bike are probably around 5% slower on the heavier bike.

In short, bike weight makes far less difference than all the advertising about losing 200 grams off your wheel weight etc. would have us believe.

Cugel

[Cowsham]

You are wasting your time looing for point 2 above. Completely unpredictable surely. Suppose it depends on what time scale you consider important.

Well then you could lump point 1 in with point 2 but what about point 3 the ability of the carbon frame to cope with touring needs also what about the racket of noise carbon framed bb motor bikes produce ( granted I only ever heard the one that used to fly past me on my commute home -- I always heard him first -- don't know if the noise was from gears or motor )

[Jdsk]

...
You'd be surprised by how well you can go on a well-made and efficient 16kg bike. On the flattish routes, you'd only notice a difference in the effort required to accelerate it. moreover, once up to speed, small undulations in the otherwise flat roads can be got over a little more easily because of the higher momentum effect of the heavier bike.
...

Greater momentum from greater mass can't keep you going uphill. That increased mass has to be lifted against gravity in proportion to the increase.

But greater mass with the same aerodynamic drag can. The same retarding force will result in lower deceleration because of the greater mass.

Greater mass increases mechanical losses, but not by much in this setting.

Jonathan

PS: Getting over Aristotle's ideas about moving objects was one of the most interesting and difficult scientific achievements:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum# ... he_concept

PPS: You can test that mass/ momentum concept with a thought experiment. Imagine two identical bikes and riders riding together. Then make them into one machine with a thread with no mass and no air resistance. They're now one object with twice the mass. But that won't change their performance in any way.

[Cowsham]

...
You'd be surprised by how well you can go on a well-made and efficient 16kg bike. On the flattish routes, you'd only notice a difference in the effort required to accelerate it. moreover, once up to speed, small undulations in the otherwise flat roads can be got over a little more easily because of the higher momentum effect of the heavier bike.
...

Greater momentum from greater mass can't keep you going uphill. That increased mass has to be lifted against gravity in proportion to the increase.

But greater mass with the same aerodynamic drag can. The same retarding force will result in lower deceleration because of the greater mass.

Greater mass increases mechanical losses, but not by much in this setting.

Jonathan

PS: Getting over Aristotle's ideas about moving objects was one of the most interesting and difficult scientific achievements:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum# ... he_concept

PPS: You can test that mass/ momentum concept with a thought experiment. Imagine two identical bikes and riders riding together. Then make them into one machine with a thread with no mass and no air resistance. They're now one object with twice the mass. But that won't change their performance in any way.

I take it you mean 'less' not 'the same' aerodynamic drag can ( keep you going uphill for longer )

I find aerodynamics is the main factor in my time for my commute to work and have just proved that with my new ebike build vividly demonstrated by the battery voltage remaining after the journey.

[Jdsk]

I take it you mean 'less' not 'the same' aerodynamic drag can ( keep you going uphill for longer )

Greater mass with the same aerodynamic drag can reduce changes in speed.

The same retarding force will result in lower deceleration because of the greater mass.

Jonathan

[Cowsham]

I take it you mean 'less' not 'the same' aerodynamic drag can ( keep you going uphill for longer )

Greater mass with the same aerodynamic drag can reduce changes in speed.

The same retarding force will result in lower deceleration because of the greater mass.

Jonathan

ah ' reduce changes ' yes

[dodger1]

They're all about twice the weight of my 531c Mercian including mudguards and saddle-pack.

To ride a 16kg plus bike, I would need an electric motor!

You'd be surprised by how well you can go on a well-made and efficient 16kg bike. On the flattish routes, you'd only notice a difference in the effort required to accelerate it. moreover, once up to speed, small undulations in the otherwise flat roads can be got over a little more easily because of the higher momentum effect of the heavier bike.

Even on the hills, an extra 8kg over a lightweight 8kg bike makes less difference than you might imagine. You do go slightly slower but it ain't by very much, as a time-percentage of your whole ride.

Have a read of this for some interesting insights on the matter:

https://www.cyclingabout.com/how-much-d ... -you-down/

(See part two of the experiment as well, on another web page).

**************
I ride about on a 13kg and on an 18kg e-bike with the ladywife. I try to use the motors as little as possible. I also go out alone without the motor in the bike, so the 18kg bike then weights 15kg. The time differences over a particular route compared with going out on the 9kg winter bike are probably around 5% slower on the heavier bike.

In short, bike weight makes far less difference than all the advertising about losing 200 grams off your wheel weight etc. would have us believe.

Cugel

Yet more excellent information Cugel. Definitely helps in looking at e-bike alternatives.

[CJ]

I believe that the best value e-bike capable of most of what you want is this:
https://www.wiggle.co.uk/vitus-e-substa ... 105-2022-1

There is an identical frame set up as a gravel bike, with wide tyres and a single chainring. But if you want a touring bike, the road version is a better choice.

Why is that? The gravel version has a substantially lower bottom gear, so will be more capable of hauling luggage up steep gradients. The wider tyres will also better protect the wheels from damage on imperfect surfaces - and as they come on 650B wheels, in the same frame, you have scope to fit a slightly slimmer tyre in the event that mudguard clearance is less generous than you want.

[Cugel]

I believe that the best value e-bike capable of most of what you want is this:
https://www.wiggle.co.uk/vitus-e-substa ... 105-2022-1

There is an identical frame set up as a gravel bike, with wide tyres and a single chainring. But if you want a touring bike, the road version is a better choice.

Why is that? The gravel version has a substantially lower bottom gear, so will be more capable of hauling luggage up steep gradients. The wider tyres will also better protect the wheels from damage on imperfect surfaces - and as they come on 650B wheels, in the same frame, you have scope to fit a slightly slimmer tyre in the event that mudguard clearance is less generous than you want.

The gravel version has a 1X gear system. Those large ratio gaps are not good for the often small speed increments one can manage on a fully loaded tourer. The tyres may be too large for many who are of the more purist tourist ilk. They're made more for rough tracks than for long distance smoother tarmac routes.

Still, some do tour on gravel bikes - and off road - these days so, yes, perhaps the gravel version would suit a less traditional touring bike requirement.

Cugel

[Teggletone]

Try Islabikes https://www.islabikes.co.uk/products/ad ... bike-ejoni A beautiful piece of kit 15Kg approx

[UpWrong]

Try Islabikes https://www.islabikes.co.uk/products/ad ... bike-ejoni A beautiful piece of kit 15Kg approx

But rather a small battery capacity.

[dodger1]

Thanks again for all the advice, especially to Cugel.
I've looked at and tried a fair number of bikes and decided on the Boardman ADV 8.9e, which I hope to buy in the next 2 weeks.
It's light enough to move without a hernia and should slide easily into the rear of my car. Some of those I tried felt like tanks, although under power they are equally delightful. I know the range is limited, but then, so am I.
Interestingly, my first choice was the flat bar version, the HYB 8.9e, but Halfords say it's been discontinued, despite it appearing on their website.
Looking forward to some relief from the hills!

[richtea99]

It's light enough to move without a hernia and should slide easily into the rear of my car. Some of those I tried felt like tanks, although under power they are equally delightful.

Remove the battery first before lifting into the car, and it will be pretty close to the weight of a 'normal' bike.
Job's a good 'un.