Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
julianm
Posts: 160
Joined: 6 Jun 2011, 8:13pm

Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by julianm »

Link to the report here:
https://thestrayferret.co.uk/harrogate- ... s-driving/
I used to time trial on that road & used it frequently for getting up to Boroughbridge.
I think it will be familiar to plenty of riders on the forum.
I'm almost frightened off the roads after a couple of incidents locally & this might just be enought to convince me I'm unsafe anyywhere.
jois
Posts: 334
Joined: 22 Sep 2022, 12:29pm

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by jois »

julianm wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 8:09pm Link to the report here:
https://thestrayferret.co.uk/harrogate- ... s-driving/
I used to time trial on that road & used it frequently for getting up to Boroughbridge.
I think it will be familiar to plenty of riders on the forum.
I'm almost frightened off the roads after a couple of incidents locally & this might just be enought to convince me I'm unsafe anyywhere.
That's a real tragedy. But I wouldn't let it scare you off cycling.These people are quite capable of killing you anywhere. Walking ,driving ,stood at the bus stop, some times they drive through people's walls.

It looks like they couldnt prove he was on the phone.
Nearholmer
Posts: 3927
Joined: 26 Mar 2022, 7:13am

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by Nearholmer »

Yes, jury faced with very difficult decision about “beyond reasonable doubt” is my guess.
peetee
Posts: 4292
Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm
Location: Upon a lumpy, scarred granite massif.

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by peetee »

The story hinges on whether or not the accused was using his phone. Recent changes to the law regarding mobile phone use while driving doesn’t seem to be changing habits. I still see very many drivers at it.
Last week I was driving through Dorset and the driver behind me was doing just this. Approaching slow moving traffic I was concerned he was going to shunt into the back of my car and every time we stopped I was holding back as the queue moved again and beeping my horn to draw his attention to the fact that I was on to him. He would look around each time but never once cottoned on to the fact that it was me causing the ruckus or that there was an empty road ahead of my car.
Last edited by peetee on 26 Sep 2022, 9:28pm, edited 1 time in total.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
Nearholmer
Posts: 3927
Joined: 26 Mar 2022, 7:13am

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by Nearholmer »

Including the bloke who organises coronations it seems.
jois
Posts: 334
Joined: 22 Sep 2022, 12:29pm

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by jois »

peetee wrote: 26 Sep 2022, 9:22pm The story hinges on whether or not the accused was using his phone. Recent changes to the law regarding mobile phone use while driving doesn’t seem to be changing habits. I still see very many drivers at it.
Last week I was driving through Dorset and the driver behind me was doing just this. Approaching slow moving traffic I was concerned he was going to shunt into the back of my car and every time we stopped I was holding back as the queue moved again and beeping my horn to draw his attention to the fact that I was on to him. He would look around each time but never once cottoned on to the fact that it was me causing the ruckus or that there was an empty road ahead of my car.
They cant help it. They really can't they are addicted .sticking it in a cradle is to much bother for them as they cant scroll as easily. Mobile phones phones were bad enough but at least they could look at the road.

Had a short conversation with a lady in a 4x4 by sign language about how close she got to me... ME she signed, yes you. She hadn't even seen me

It really wouldn't be hard for the police to catch 100s a day cycling past the traffic jams with camera.cycling Mickey style
LancsGirl
Posts: 255
Joined: 5 Jun 2021, 9:57pm

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by LancsGirl »

Drinking the night before, so drunk he "couldn't see". Traces of cocaine in his blood stream. Isn't that an illegal drug?

Though he has pleaded guilty to causing death by careless driving. Presumably a lower sentence.

Maybe of interest to any Yorkshire folk:

He lives on St Mary's Avenue in Harrogate, and is an "aspiring property developer", whatever one of those is. Presumably his company is this one:

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

By the looks of those company accounts he's stopped "aspiring". All this is publicly available information, by the way. Just saying.
User avatar
Cugel
Posts: 5430
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by Cugel »

LancsGirl wrote: 27 Sep 2022, 12:48am Drinking the night before, so drunk he "couldn't see". Traces of cocaine in his blood stream. Isn't that an illegal drug?

Though he has pleaded guilty to causing death by careless driving. Presumably a lower sentence.

Maybe of interest to any Yorkshire folk:

He lives on St Mary's Avenue in Harrogate, and is an "aspiring property developer", whatever one of those is. Presumably his company is this one:

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

By the looks of those company accounts he's stopped "aspiring". All this is publicly available information, by the way. Just saying.
Is that a pitchfork I see in your mit or is it a burning brand? :-)

Such fellows and the lenient treatment they receive for their murderous antics does rile one up. I do sometimes wonder if I could control my revenge-urges should such a creep run over my dog, let alone my grandson (or even the neighbour's). Should a pitchfork happen to be sticking in the bark-bag whilst the miscreant went smirking past the front garden I was barking the flower beds of ........

But them beaks aren't at all lenient on folk who offer the public service of dispensing with murderous car hooligans before they squash a few more unlucky enough to get in their way. No, one could probably only find leniency if a car murderer was himself murdered by another car.

"The sun got in my eyes, m'lord".

"Ah yes, it can happen us all. FIned ten pounds".

Cugel, just fantasising you know.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
Stradageek
Posts: 1657
Joined: 17 Jan 2011, 1:07pm

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by Stradageek »

Hmmm, a jury of drivers I suspect. Given all the evidence and that his tale about the deceased swerving in front of him was shown to be a lie, I would have called him guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

However, were I the judge, I would impose a hefty fine to be paid to the victims family, a years worth of community service and a 10-20yr driving ban - not prison - prison should be a last resort for those who are a clear danger to society. A driving ban would do the necessary here.

With sincere condolences to the families left behind - this is just my opinion.
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by thirdcrank »

For anybody unfamiliar with the location but interested in it, the A 168 is the road for "prohibited traffic" mainly running alongside the A1(M) For much of its length it uses one of the carriageways from the old A1 dual carriageway. It is very popular with riders.

Here's a streetview of the junction signed to Allerton Park Exploring up and down the road shows various riders (I don't know the presice location.)

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.03567 ... 384!8i8192

I see this crash occurred in May 2020. I'm too lazy to check back on the times but for long enough this road was quite heavily policed by both patrols and speed camera vans. I've seen three camera vans al out at the same time on a few miles of road.

Nobody but the jury know why they reached a verdict and I fancy they may not apply much legal logic. That's the way it is and it's pointless fretting. The brief details in this report seem to suggest a detailed investigation, but that seems not to have been conclusive about the use of distracting equipment. Survivor's justice. Also, reminded by the defence that the max for causing death by dangerous driving would be 14 years, I fancy the jury may have been more comfortable with accepting the plea to the lesser

=========================================================

PS it seems that at the time of this crash the North Yorks PCC was Julia Mulligan who seemed to place a priority of traffic policing, especially in the modern context.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Mulligan

She was replaced in 2021 by Philip Allott who resigned after a crass comment about Sarah Everard. More to the point in this context, he announced a review of traffic policing - which I took to mean cut backs, especially in speed cameras

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Allott
Nearholmer
Posts: 3927
Joined: 26 Mar 2022, 7:13am

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by Nearholmer »

Nobody but the jury know why they reached a verdict and I fancy they may not apply much legal logic.
I think you possibly underestimate your fellows. Clearly a lot depends upon how well the jury is directed as regards the law, standard of proof etc, but my experience of being a jury member on a case that perhaps had some superficial similarities, an HGV driving over a sports car, killing the driver, at the dead of night in the middle of nowhere, with no witnesses (phone use wasn’t an issue), is that twelve very different bods off the street can actually bring solid, thoughtful consideration to what can be a difficult task, applying plenty of legal logic.

Personally, I’d be very reluctant to alter the standard of proof, or second guess a properly directed jury, but I might argue for stiffer sentences for those found guilty of either careless or dangerous driving.
iandusud
Posts: 1577
Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 1:35pm

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by iandusud »

I cycle around this area frequently and avoid that stretch of road like the plague as it is popular with with speeding drivers in their playthings. The last time I used it was when my usual quiet road from Lower Dunsforth to Boroughbridge was closed due to flooding. I had several close passes at high speed plus one "punishment pass" from a driver in a Jag XK... who's fun I'd obviously spoiled because he'd had to slow down. You'd think they could use the motorway that replaced the old A1 but where's the fun in that! :x
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by thirdcrank »

My own experience of jury service including being the foreman didn't give me any confidence at all. Of course, I'm unable to report on our deliberations but I did spend a lot of time standing by in the canteen listening to discussions of people between cases etc and the thing that struck me most was the extent of the theorising about stuff which hadn't formed part of the evidence.

Re stiffer sentences, I think it's widely believed that they tend to reduce the likelihood of a guilty verdict.. This is part of the reason why defence advocates make such a big issue of the maximum possible sentence for the charge, rather than the mandatory guidelines. In "my" case, after I had delivered the guilty verdicts the beak said he knew we would be interested to know the sentence but sentencing would be deferred. However, because of the defendant's record he was subject to a minimum seven years, plus whatever he got for the current convictions. The reaction of my fellow jury members suggested to me that had they known about that, they would never have convicted. I believe there was quite a lot of discussion in our absence before the judge ruled we would not be told.

When I post on something like this, it's only an attempt to give a bit of insight based on experience. While I'm obviously no learned friend, I've done quite well out of the system, including drawing a decent pension for 25+ years.
iandusud
Posts: 1577
Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 1:35pm

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by iandusud »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-englan ... x-63041115
This resulted in a conviction of dangerous driving (and rightly so) but the guy who was off his head on booze and cocaine the night before, and was using his phone whilst driving who killed a cyclist was not. I wonder what the result of the e-scooter rider's case would have been if he had been tried by a jury of e-scooterists?
Jdsk
Posts: 24636
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Harrogate porsche driver who killed cyclist not guilty of dangerous driving

Post by Jdsk »

LancsGirl wrote: 27 Sep 2022, 12:48am Drinking the night before, so drunk he "couldn't see". Traces of cocaine in his blood stream. Isn't that an illegal drug?
...
Yes. Class A in England and Wales.

We're all familiar with testing for alcohol in connection with driving. There's a strong correlation between blood (and breath) concentration of alcohol and impairment of performance.

But alcohol is exceptional in this. That correlation doesn't exist for cocaine, either for the stuff that's ingested or its metabolites (as mentioned in the report, probably benzoylecgonine).

The police do use point of care testing methods for cocaine but one day someone's going to challenge the underlying principles in this.

Jonathan

PS: If anyone's wondering about prosecution for that personal possession of cocaine: that would now be very unusual.

PPS: I've thought about challenging the testing myself, but I oscillate on whether it would be in the public interest... all rational advice would be appreciated.
Last edited by Jdsk on 27 Sep 2022, 2:56pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply