How oh how do you get a lockring off?

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fastpedaller
Posts: 3435
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by fastpedaller »

tatanab wrote:The Miche board is for Shimano splined cassettes, not freewheels. Also available in Campag spline.


I was unaware such an offering was still available, and wonder whether the Miche sprockets work with Shimano indexing?
ETA I also note the smallest sprocket on 8 speed isn't limited to daft ones like 11 or 12T
Brucey
Posts: 44517
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by Brucey »

Miche sprockets can be supplied with different spacers which make the cassette suitable for either campag or shimano indexing.

If you visit the miche website you can download various pdfs which explain what the options are.

Miche don't warrant that mixed cassettes (of say Miche and shimano sprockets) will shift perfectly but if there is one bad shift in a cassette (where a cluster of miche sprockets butts up against a cluster of shimano ones) then it is normally something you can compensate for or learn to live with. So I think it is 'worth a go'.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Brucey
Posts: 44517
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by Brucey »

thirdcrank wrote:I'm familiar with sprocket boards; both those illustrated are for splined freewheels, the America having a sprocket which doubles as a lockring.

Earlier types had all screw-on sprockets - as I'm sure many of the posters above know from experience. When I asked to be reminded about uses for chain whips I wrote "... trying to disassemble screw-together freewheels (pre-splines.)" and for a reason. IIRC, a Regina 5 speed' two largest sprockets screwed onto the back of the block anti-clockwise, the next two screwed onto the front clockwise, and the smallest screwed into its neighbour. I wrote "trying to disassemble" because my memory is that this was a futile gesture. It sounds as though others had more success.

As an aside, I have two genuine Regina splined removers. I had to buy the second because the first was so poorly made it wouldn't fit into the splines in the body.


IIRC the Regina freewheels with splined removers were born out of some kind of unholy Franco-Italian cooperation between Maillard and Regina (as were some of the earlier 'all threaded' designs too, in fact). This may mean that you end up trying to remove a freewheel body made in France using a remover made in Italy; a recipe for disaster if ever I heard of one... :wink: :roll:

The first derailleur geared bikes I had (in the mid to late 1970s) used 'atom' freewheels which used a splined remover and a mixture of splined and threaded sprockets, because that is what the bikes came with and was also what the local cycle dealer stocked. Needless to say it was the most expensive sprocket that I used to wear out first, and I couldn't easily buy that one anyway. So I needed new freewheels on a regular basis, which was both very tedious and rather expensive. Lots of my chums used regina freewheels with all-threaded sprockets and they were just a PITA, it seemed to me anyway; the remover slots were not big enough and were easily damaged, the freewheels were not strongly made internally and a PITA to work on. I steered clear myself, but might have been swayed had a local dealer had a well-stocked sprocket board I suppose. As it was I started using SunTour New Winner freewheels and they did me for nearly ten years (longer still on the touring bike), which would have been a lot of miles too. Again not a perfect system but one I learned to live with I suppose; in seven speed form they used five threaded sprockets from seven, so me and chain whips were no strangers....

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lookrider
Posts: 149
Joined: 1 Aug 2019, 6:10pm

Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by Lookrider »

https://uniortools.com/eng/product/1670 ... over#44586

Is the fixed solid rem8ver from decathlon same idea as these ones
keyboardmonkey
Posts: 1120
Joined: 1 Dec 2009, 5:05pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by keyboardmonkey »

Lookrider wrote:https://uniortools.com/eng/product/1670-2BI-freewheel-remover#44586

Is the fixed solid rem8ver from decathlon same idea as these ones

I don’t know for certain, but I notice in Unior’s promotional video that our man Chris throws away his antiquated chain whip, but he needs to buy two tools if he has a cassette with a 10T top sprocket and, say, another with a 12T as they have a different “configuration”. I think I’ll pass :D
Brucey
Posts: 44517
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by Brucey »

the Unior tools do work the same way as the decathlon one. However there are two Unior tools; one for 11/12T sprockets and one for 13/14T sprockets. There isn't one that fits a 10T sprocket...?

The decathlon item fits 11,12,13,14T sprockets in a single tool.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
keyboardmonkey
Posts: 1120
Joined: 1 Dec 2009, 5:05pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by keyboardmonkey »

Brucey wrote:the Unior tools do work the same way as the decathlon one. However there are two Unior tools; one for 11/12T sprockets and one for 13/14T sprockets. There isn't one that fits a 10T sprocket...?

The decathlon item fits 11,12,13,14T sprockets in a single tool.

cheers


Ah, yes not the actual 10T sprocket, but the 11/12T model fits *over* the 10T. But presumably you’ll still need two tools if your bikes aren’t standardised across the range :o
Or am I missing something?

42606E5C-6728-45C2-8975-95E149091927.jpeg
Brucey
Posts: 44517
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by Brucey »

presumably 12s MTB cassettes go 10-12T rather than 10-11-12T but I'd imagine that 'road'12s cassettes may be different. More tools required! ?

Or just use a chain whip....?
cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
slowster
Moderator
Posts: 4629
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by slowster »

531colin wrote: 22 Jan 2021, 5:22pm Well done to the OP for getting the blasted thing undone. :D :D :D

I have taken some photos, so I'm going to show them....spurred on originally by Jonathan's challenge (?) to take some photos, then by others comments on how tricky chain whips are to use, and how we should stress them in just the designed direction, and then by the thought that between us all we should be able to think of a way of getting "stupid tite" (trade mark) lockrings undone without access to a complete workshop of tools.

So, here is my suggestion........with caveats....
1) Nobody but me goes near my bikes with a spanner, so I don't have to deal with broken or stripped fixings, or stuff done up by some gorilla who thinks he is working on a crane
2) I haven't even tried this; I have a bench vise, so I just fit my remover into the vise, drop the wheel on, and then I have 2 hands to fit the chain whip and use the chain whip to turn the cassette.

ImageIMG_5362 by 531colin, on Flickr

So, now for the suggestion....
Firstly, fit the chain whip and tie it in place. I have used some wire that was knocking about, because its red and shows up against my mucky bike.

ImageIMG_5356 by 531colin, on Flickr

Now, fit the lockring remover and secure it with the Q/R spindle I can't secure mine, because it doesn't have a hole for the Q/R.

Lean the wheel up against the wall, with a handy bit of scaffold tube (or what-have-you) over the chainwhip handle so the tube rests on the ground; attach a big spanner to the remover and you can now lean on that big spanner to undo the lockring....one hand is free to support/restrain the wheel.

ImageIMG_5359 by 531colin, on Flickr

ImageIMG_5360 by 531colin, on Flickr

What does the team think?
I had to use a >1m pipe on my chain whip today, and even your 15" Bahco would not have been enough: I had to use another short piece of pipe/tube on my 10" adjustable spanner to increase its effective length to ~18".

I am at a loss to understand why the lockring on the cassette was so tight. I only fitted it a few hundred miles ago using the 10" adjustable spanner, and I don't think I torqued it up that much.
Jules59
Posts: 420
Joined: 16 Jan 2019, 2:34pm

Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by Jules59 »

What torque setting did you use. All my Shimano cassettes say 40nm on the lockring - which is not a lot
slowster
Moderator
Posts: 4629
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by slowster »

Jules59 wrote: 6 Oct 2021, 8:42pm What torque setting did you use. All my Shimano cassettes say 40nm on the lockring - which is not a lot
I did not use a torque wrench, just the 10" adjustable spanner. I am not strong or heavy, so generally I don't think I put much force into tightening lockrings.

I have thought about getting a 3/8" drive 1" socket in order to be able to use my torque wrench on my lockring tool, but ideally I would want a deep socket that would allow the QR skewer to be used to hold the lockring tool in place, and I would also prefer it to be a 6 point wall drive socket, and I have been frustrated when I have searched online for one in the past.

So for now I'll stick with my 10" adjustable and focus on my inner weakling when I do lockrings up in future.
Milfred Cubicle
Posts: 361
Joined: 29 Aug 2007, 8:55am
Location: Co. Durham

Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by Milfred Cubicle »

I think we've all learned one thing...a bit of old wire should always be red!
Pebble
Posts: 1934
Joined: 7 Jun 2020, 11:59pm

Re: How oh how do you get a lockring off?

Post by Pebble »

I will add my home made whip to the above

Firstly stupidly over tightened (just to prove it was not already loose)

Then note now the removal tool and the chain whip is held securely onto the wheel with a QR

Then the all important position where I am pushing down with both arms with my weight helping.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_tUvvyCZqg
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