Third Party Liability Insurance

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
mattheus
Posts: 5044
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: Third Party Liability Insurance

Post by mattheus »

Surely there must be a list of exclusions?!?

I'm not suggesting that "... while cycling ... " is likely to be on there, but I imagine driving is there, amongst other things. :-/
PeterJ
Posts: 111
Joined: 11 Aug 2010, 10:59pm

Re: Third Party Liability Insurance

Post by PeterJ »

mattheus wrote: 28 Sep 2022, 2:08pm Surely there must be a list of exclusions?!?

I'm not suggesting that "... while cycling ... " is likely to be on there, but I imagine driving is there, amongst other things. :-/
Yes, I did wonder about that - otherwise why bother with separate car insurance? A closer look revealed that they won't cover liability while using vehicles. Their definition of vehicles means cycling is covered.
PH
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Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Third Party Liability Insurance

Post by PH »

The choice with all insurance is to live in happy ignorance or to have thoroughly understood the policy documents, more so if you're going to rely on some cover bundled in with something else or another policy. I had some cover with a union membership, but on reading the policy there were too many holes in it for me to rely on.
Pebble
Posts: 1934
Joined: 7 Jun 2020, 11:59pm

Re: Third Party Liability Insurance

Post by Pebble »

I have been thinking of 3rd party insurance for when I'm out on the bike (esp now that I sometimes cycle on busy roads and cyclepaths)

Not sure if my home insurance covers me - it does not mention "Away from home" Can anyone be sure from my policy wording (the green right hand column is the exclusions)
do not understand the "a. & b." soley as owner/ / not as occupier - it makes no sense!
Image

Quite like the sound of this Laka cover £1 per month sounds good- my bikes not worth any money so I am just after basic 3rd party cover in case I make a mistake and damage something or someone.
Dingdong
Posts: 966
Joined: 22 Apr 2022, 4:59pm

Re: Third Party Liability Insurance

Post by Dingdong »

April insurance give you third party for free. There are restrictions of course...
Nigel
Posts: 463
Joined: 25 Feb 2007, 6:29pm

Re: Third Party Liability Insurance

Post by Nigel »

Pebble wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 12:47am I have been thinking of 3rd party insurance for when I'm out on the bike (esp now that I sometimes cycle on busy roads and cyclepaths)

Not sure if my home insurance covers me - it does not mention "Away from home" Can anyone be sure from my policy wording (the green right hand column is the exclusions)
do not understand the "a. & b." soley as owner/ / not as occupier - it makes no sense!
If you need advice on a policy, ask someone qualified to advise, such as a solicitor or insurance broker. My general comments are in the thread above about home policies often providing cover, but I'm providing no guidance on specific policies as I'm not qualified to do so.

If a member of Cycling UK, then members have 3rd party liability insurance as part of their membership fee, providing cover for claims from 3rd parties when out and about on a bike.


- Nigel
slowster
Moderator
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Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Third Party Liability Insurance

Post by slowster »

Pebble wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 12:47am do not understand the "a. & b." soley as owner/ / not as occupier - it makes no sense!
The policy separates out different types of liability in that way usually to allow exclusions or conditions to be imposed on just one or other of those different categories.

a) = occupier's liability, e.g. you wash your car on the drive in sub zero weather resulting in a sheet of ice covering the drive, and someone calling on your home slips on the ice and suffers injury.

b) = general personal liability (not work/professional and not for a car or other motor vehicle). This covers general day to day activities unrelated to your occupation of your home, and is likely to involve something which happens away from your home, i.e. you negligently causing injury to another person or damaging their property, such as carelessly riding your bike into a pedestrian.

c) = small element of employer's liability cover for domestic staff, e.g. a nanny.
Pebble
Posts: 1934
Joined: 7 Jun 2020, 11:59pm

Re: Third Party Liability Insurance

Post by Pebble »

slowster wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 9:07pm
Pebble wrote: 6 Oct 2022, 12:47am do not understand the "a. & b." soley as owner/ / not as occupier - it makes no sense!
The policy separates out different types of liability in that way usually to allow exclusions or conditions to be imposed on just one or other of those different categories.

a) = occupier's liability, e.g. you wash your car on the drive in sub zero weather resulting in a sheet of ice covering the drive, and someone calling on your home slips on the ice and suffers injury.

b) = general personal liability (not work/professional and not for a car or other motor vehicle). This covers general day to day activities unrelated to your occupation of your home, and is likely to involve something which happens away from your home, i.e. you negligently causing injury to another person or damaging their property, such as carelessly riding your bike into a pedestrian.

c) = small element of employer's liability cover for domestic staff, e.g. a nanny.
Thanks for that, they were my thoughts too, but it is not very obvious.

I have both emailed and phoned MoreThen regarding whether they would cover me cycling. The lady (or could it have been an android?) was very pleasant but could only give examples about people being hit on the head with golf balls, and I think this could have been away from home? (is getting whacked on the nogging a regular thing with golfers? never hear them going on and on about helmet wearing!)

And the answer to my email was not much help either - I was absolutely clear about being away from home on a bicycle
If I was involved in an accident whilst cycling away from home that was deemed to be my fault, would my home insurance policy cover my liabilities? I
Answer
I have checked the section of the policy booklet which you are referring too and I can confirm that you are covered for liability within the property for example if someone was to slip and injure themselves in your home this would be covered under your policy.

Now wasn't that helpful and to the point! I wonder how helpful they would be if I was making a claim....

I think to have any confidence I am going to need a specific policy that mentions cycling.
slowster
Moderator
Posts: 4629
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Third Party Liability Insurance

Post by slowster »

Pebble wrote: 11 Oct 2022, 12:08am Thanks for that, they were my thoughts too, but it is not very obvious.

I have both emailed and phoned MoreThen regarding whether they would cover me cycling. The lady (or could it have been an android?) was very pleasant but could only give examples about people being hit on the head with golf balls, and I think this could have been away from home? (is getting whacked on the nogging a regular thing with golfers? never hear them going on and on about helmet wearing!)

And the answer to my email was not much help either - I was absolutely clear about being away from home on a bicycle
If I was involved in an accident whilst cycling away from home that was deemed to be my fault, would my home insurance policy cover my liabilities? I
Answer
I have checked the section of the policy booklet which you are referring too and I can confirm that you are covered for liability within the property for example if someone was to slip and injure themselves in your home this would be covered under your policy.

Now wasn't that helpful and to the point! I wonder how helpful they would be if I was making a claim....

I think to have any confidence I am going to need a specific policy that mentions cycling.
I would not worry about it. The general personal liability cover under household contents policies is pretty much standard (unless you choose some extremely cheap, unusual, no frills cover). Because general personal liability is obviously so wide ranging in what it could theoretically (and does) cover, insurers will not specify in detail which activities might be covered: they are innumerable. Hence that part of the policy just specifies what is NOT covered, e.g. risks that should be insured under a motor insurance policy or risks that should be insured under a commercial policy because they relate to someone's work activities/profession.

Golf balls hitting people is probably used as an example because some of the established case law/precedent about legal liability involved golf and cricket players and clubs. For your purposes, the main point is that golf is a sporting activity with inherent liability risk undertaken away from the home, and just as golf is covered without being specified, so is cycling.

The amount that insurers pay out for general personal liability claims as a percentage of total claim payments is very small. The vast majority of claims are for damage to the householder's own property, and the percentage of the premium that funds the liability cover is similarly very small.

The only (slight) concern I would have, is the amount of cover. £1M was the standard for decades, but the number of injury claims where the court award exceeds that amount have inevitably been increasing with inflation and advances in expensive medical care prolonging lives. The vast majority of such claims will be for medical malpractice (e.g. compensation for very serious injuries and 24/7 medical care for the rest of someone's life) and motor or work accidents (e.g. loss of family breadwinner and/or 24/7 lifetime medical care), but clearly there is a very small but real risk of a similarly large claim which would be covered by the general personal liability section of a household contents policy, whether for a negligently struck golf ball or for a cyclist negligently colliding with a pedestrian. If the court award exceeds the policy limit (whether it is £1M or more), conceivably the defendant could be bankrupted/lose their savings/be forced to sell their home. In contrast non-homeowners with limited assets are very unlikely to be pursued in the same way.

CUK membership includes £10M liability cover, and I think that is a more appropriate limit nowadays. I think there is a slow trend for household insurers to provide more than £1M cover, but it varies between insurers. My own insurer provides £2M cover; I expect some others will provide £5M or £10M, and over the next decade I expect £10M will become standard.

The fact that CUK provides £10M cover would not be enough on its own to make me take out membership, but it does contribute to the attractiveness of the overall package of benefits of membership.
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