Bottle cage mount loose

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ChrisF
Posts: 665
Joined: 22 Mar 2014, 7:34pm

Bottle cage mount loose

Post by ChrisF »

I have an ageing carbon frame and have accidentally cross-threaded a bolt into one of the bottle mount holes. If I try to remove the bolt (the bottle cage isn't fitted, I was just testing the bolt) the whole insert turns round. I have tried feeding superglue around the periphery of the insert but that hasn't helped. Any tips? Or will I have to make do with just the bottle cage on the seat tube (which is still OK)?
Chris F, Cornwall
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Bottle cage mount loose

Post by Jdsk »

I don't know anything about reattaching the insert.

But to release the bolt from the insert have you tried loading the insert against the frame before unscrewing? Pressing towards the frame, pulling away from it, pressing against it at an angle?

Jonathan
jois
Posts: 334
Joined: 22 Sep 2022, 12:29pm

Re: Bottle cage mount loose

Post by jois »

ChrisF wrote: 27 Sep 2022, 6:18pm I have an ageing carbon frame and have accidentally cross-threaded a bolt into one of the bottle mount holes. If I try to remove the bolt (the bottle cage isn't fitted, I was just testing the bolt) the whole insert turns round. I have tried feeding superglue around the periphery of the insert but that hasn't helped. Any tips? Or will I have to make do with just the bottle cage on the seat tube (which is still OK)?
It's not easy. If it was a metal frame I'd recommend sticking a thin screwdriver in the hole and jamming it, not sure that's wise with carbon, if you can lock mole grips or some such on the insert maybe or get the whole insert out or even in and then reglue another one

Or plan z cut the screw of flushish and put a cable tie found the cage\ frame to stop it flapping about
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cycleruk
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Joined: 17 Jan 2009, 9:30pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Bottle cage mount loose

Post by cycleruk »

I would expect the insert to a be 'Nutsert'. (Rivnut) or similar.
https://www.google.com/search?client=op ... tpsf=openc

As a very last resort cut off the screw flush with the insert and then file or grind both screw and the insert flange down flush with the frame.
Protect the frame with something so as not damage the carbon surface. A couple of layers of masking tape etc.
Once the insert has lost its flange it should push through into the frame and probably fall into the BB shell.
A bit dicey I know but normally I would say cut off the screw flush and drill out. Trouble is the insert will spin in the frame making it impossible drill.
A new insert can then fitted.

If in doubt ask your LBS for advice or if they have any other suggestions.
Whose make is the frame?
.
You'll never know if you don't try it.
gbnz
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Joined: 13 Sep 2008, 10:38am

Re: Bottle cage mount loose

Post by gbnz »

ChrisF wrote: 27 Sep 2022, 6:18pm I have tried feeding superglue around the periphery of the insert but that hasn't helped. Any tips?
Have you tried epoxy resin? Forms a structural/engineering adhesive when mixed, similar in price to a tube of superglue, easy to use, have used it for years when sorting out various pannier rack, bottle cage, derailleur, mudguard attachment issues - push a bit of mixed resin in the "stripped thread" hole, pushing the bolt in before it's set, should remain in place for years (Nb. Worth ensuring it's bought as a couple of small tubes from a generic discount store, not from an exceptionally priced "specialist")
ChrisF
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Joined: 22 Mar 2014, 7:34pm

Re: Bottle cage mount loose

Post by ChrisF »

Thank you, all, for suggestions.
I am familiar with epoxy (used it quite a lot in the past) but I think it's too viscous to flow into the crack around the insert. I might try building up a 'bridge' around it though, may be just enough strength to loosen the stuck bolt.
If not I'll Dremmel off the bolt close to the frame (it can still stick out a bit, the thickness of the bottle cage plastic) and then use a cable tie. (I've already got a cable tie around the frame because the internal gear cable system failed so my gear cable is now outside the frame.).
It's a PlanetX frame about 10 years old.
Chris F, Cornwall
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cycleruk
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Joined: 17 Jan 2009, 9:30pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Bottle cage mount loose

Post by cycleruk »

Another option would be to fit 2 new inserts and reposition the cage a little higher.
You'll never know if you don't try it.
alexnharvey
Posts: 1923
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:39am

Re: Bottle cage mount loose

Post by alexnharvey »

ChrisF wrote: 28 Sep 2022, 8:06pm Thank you, all, for suggestions.
I am familiar with epoxy (used it quite a lot in the past) but I think it's too viscous to flow into the crack around the insert. I might try building up a 'bridge' around it though, may be just enough strength to loosen the stuck bolt.
If not I'll Dremmel off the bolt close to the frame (it can still stick out a bit, the thickness of the bottle cage plastic) and then use a cable tie. (I've already got a cable tie around the frame because the internal gear cable system failed so my gear cable is now outside the frame.).
It's a PlanetX frame about 10 years old.
Epoxy resin is available in many different formulations of varying viscosity and setting time. It also become less viscous when heated. You will probably find a blast with a hair dryer has it wicking into the joint easily. The heat will also make it go off more quickly of course, hence heating it in situ rather than prior to application, particularly with a common 5 minute type.
mattsccm
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 9:44pm

Re: Bottle cage mount loose

Post by mattsccm »

I drilled a very small hole next to the bolt and held the insert with a small nail.
GideonReade
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Joined: 4 Jul 2010, 10:46pm

Re: Bottle cage mount loose

Post by GideonReade »

"epoxy (used it quite a lot in the past) but I think it's too viscous to flow into the crack"

As another wrote above. Know any yachties or composite wokers? The sort of epoxy mix used to lay up kevlar/carbon is lot thinner than glue like Araldite.
DevonDamo
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Joined: 24 May 2011, 1:42am

Re: Bottle cage mount loose

Post by DevonDamo »

ChrisF wrote: 28 Sep 2022, 8:06pmI am familiar with epoxy (used it quite a lot in the past) but I think it's too viscous to flow into the crack around the insert.
Unthickened epoxy is runny enough to flow into anything I've ever asked of it, including bolt threads. I often find it's too runny so have to thicken it by mixing in powder, e.g. colloidal silica or cellulose microfibres. Look at 'west system' epoxy - they're one of the main industrial suppliers and their stuff is definitely runny enough for your needs.

You can use the thickening powders to make epoxy really thick, like toothpaste, which would allow you to go for an alternate solution: i.e. build up a lump on your frame, and then when it's cured, you can sand it into whatever shape you want. I.e. you could install your own 'inserts' externally. So long as you prep the area you're bonding it to by sanding down to the epoxy/carbon, it will be more than strong enough for a bottle cage screw. I've used this same technique to install bolts which see many hundred times the torque you'd be applying. You can even buy tints to colour this 'thickened epoxy' to match your bike. Not as pretty as your existing frame inserts, but it would do the job and you could get clever by multi-tasking these new posts as a pump holder or similar.
ChrisF
Posts: 665
Joined: 22 Mar 2014, 7:34pm

Re: Bottle cage mount loose

Post by ChrisF »

alexnharvey wrote: 30 Sep 2022, 12:13pm
ChrisF wrote: 28 Sep 2022, 8:06pm Thank you, all, for suggestions.
I am familiar with epoxy (used it quite a lot in the past) but I think it's too viscous to flow into the crack around the insert. I might try building up a 'bridge' around it though, may be just enough strength to loosen the stuck bolt.
If not I'll Dremmel off the bolt close to the frame (it can still stick out a bit, the thickness of the bottle cage plastic) and then use a cable tie. (I've already got a cable tie around the frame because the internal gear cable system failed so my gear cable is now outside the frame.).
It's a PlanetX frame about 10 years old.
Epoxy resin is available in many different formulations of varying viscosity and setting time. It also become less viscous when heated. You will probably find a blast with a hair dryer has it wicking into the joint easily. The heat will also make it go off more quickly of course, hence heating it in situ rather than prior to application, particularly with a common 5 minute type.
Thanks Alex. Yes, maybe I should have thought about low-viscosity resins. But I would have needed to use a resin first. Having now contamined the area with superglue, any resin will only stick as well as that (which clearly wasn't good enough).
Anyway I have now cut off the bolt head and fixed the bottle cage in place with a good tie-wrap.
Chris F, Cornwall
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