This may be a first prosecution of an illegal ebike.

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc. that are legal in the UK
hemo
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Re: This may be a first prosecution of an illegal ebike.

Post by hemo »

I wonder if the met have gone for the likely prosecution of an illegal modified bike and licence endorsement and a heavy fine rather then abh or other possible offences due to the precedence set by the Dalston ebike crash and a pedestrian. In that case the rider wasn't prosecuted for any driving offences but was persued for manslaughter for which he was found not guilty.
hemo
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Joined: 16 Nov 2017, 5:40pm
Location: West Sussex

Re: This may be a first prosecution of an illegal ebike.

Post by hemo »

Jdsk wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 7:29pm Thanks.

That seems to require me to log-in somewhere...

It sounds like:

"Walker gets a head injury after cyclist on illegally modified bike hits them":
https://www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-n ... r-25159666

following:

https://twitter.com/MPSRoyal_Parks/stat ... 9744583681

Jonathan

Yes the same story from My London, my link had the same story.
hemo
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Re: This may be a first prosecution of an illegal ebike.

Post by hemo »

The presedence has been set for prosecutions with the ebiker in Wales being given 6 licence points and a £600 fine.
The Dalston rider eventually got a way lightly (unless his conscience) still bothers him, with the not guilty verdict. In hind sight the Met hould have gone for the lesser motor offences for a conviction.
jois
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Re: This may be a first prosecution of an illegal ebike.

Post by jois »

hemo wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 7:32pm I wonder if the met have gone for the likely prosecution of an illegal modified bike and licence endorsement and a heavy fine rather then abh or other possible offences due to the precedence set by the Dalston ebike crash and a pedestrian. In that case the rider wasn't prosecuted for any driving offences but was persued for manslaughter for which he was found not guilty.
I don't think youl get ABH out of an accidental crash, manslaughter is a real reach, I'm not surprised he was acquitted, with out actually seeing the court reports, it was difficulty charging that that brought about the offences of causing death by careless/ dangerous driving, which are a lot easier to prosicute, which begs the question of why they didn't charge those unless his ridding was neither careless or dangerous, in which case they chanced their arm at manslaughter.

In the case of a death they feel a strong obligation to charge with a very serious offence, even if you haven't actually done much or anything wrong. I doubt a court case for no insurance even entered their heads
PH
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Re: This may be a first prosecution of an illegal ebike.

Post by PH »

hemo wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 7:32pm I wonder if the met have gone for the likely prosecution of an illegal modified bike and licence endorsement and a heavy fine rather then abh
The vehicle offences are separate from any prosecution arising from the incident, though of course they could be considered as relevant evidence in any prosecution for it. The rider could have been prosecuted for them regardless. Whether or not they're charged with anything else remains to be seen. It certainly isn't a question of one or the other.
PH
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Re: This may be a first prosecution of an illegal ebike.

Post by PH »

hemo wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 7:46pm The presedence has been set for prosecutions
I doubt it was heard by a court high enough to set a precedent. That's reserved for the High Court and above, the inferior courts, Magistrates and County don't.
stodd
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Re: This may be a first prosecution of an illegal ebike.

Post by stodd »

Jdsk wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 7:20pm TTBOMK I've only heard of that approach (that's not an eBike it's a moped/motorcycle) once before. Does anyone know how many there have been?
I think there have been very few; though others and I have often mentioned it as a potential significant charge, especially after an accident.

In the Dalston case mentioned above the police (or CPS?) should certainly have brought these lesser charges as well as the manslaughter. As well as the bike being illegal (and not insured etc) it was clear from the video that it was being ridden recklessly. I think CPS were so sure of the manslaughter case they didn't bother with the rest.
Bonzo Banana
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Re: This may be a first prosecution of an illegal ebike.

Post by Bonzo Banana »

The other day I was on a shared path and a ebike came by at about 22-24mph I would guess, I was on a slight incline so the ebike was going downhill. It was a generic looking chinese ebike with fat 20" wheels and looked like it had fairly low end generic mechanical disc brakes. Generally a nice looking ebike though but looks like it weighed 30-35kg as an estimate. I'm sure I would have been badly injured if it hit me and the rider didn't leave a huge gap between me but I don't think the ebike motor was powered so presumably perfectly legal. I just question what would be worse a heavy electrically unpowered ebike hitting you as it goes downhill or a powered ebike hitting you on the flat or even uphill at the same speed. For me I feel I would have been protected by a law that states only pass pedestrians at 12mph or less rather than caring if the motor is on or off. As he was peddling quite hard I wondered if he would have had better control if he didn't have to pedal at that point.

Surely its not just about the motor being on but the weight of the ebike, the size, cargo bikes can really fill up shared paths. Lots of different factors effect pedestrian safety I would of thought. Pedestrians and cyclists collide all the time on shared paths and preventing that for all types of cyclists should be important not just ebikes. All are capable of 30mph plus speeds some cargo bikes are upto 70kg and then when you add the rider and kids onboard that could be 1/4 ton in motion and not much space around them on a shared path.

Obviously illegal ebikes need to be removed but I do wonder if we have taken the time to look at accident data and formulate rules that reduce such accidents. The rules that anyone can ride an ebike over 14 seems poorly thought out. Perhaps a ebike license is necessary but for those who already have a full car or motorbike license don't have to get.
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CJ
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Re: This may be a first prosecution of an illegal ebike.

Post by CJ »

Bonzo Banana wrote: 12 Oct 2022, 8:41am I do wonder if we have taken the time to look at accident data...
Here's some data from the Netherlands, so downhill speeding may be not so common, uphill help less necessary, and frustration with motor cutting out at "only 15.5mph" on the flat ought to reduce demand for EU-standard restricted e-bikes, but which nevertheless accounted for 52% of all bicycles sold in 2021. So you can be sure the sample size is big enough for statistical significance, and that sporty types are balanced by a large majority of regular folks just pedalling.

Anyway: compared to riders of purely pedal-powered city & trekking bikes, e-bike riders were 1.6 times more likely to visit hospital A&E (or whatever they call it there), but not as likely as those speed-demons on road-racing bikes (twice as likely) and thrill-seekers on mountain-bikes (three times as likely)! Note that these figures are adjusted for distance travelled, age, gender, overweight, physical complaints and medication use. So it's no use speculating about such factors skewing the results as racers riding further or doddery old e-bikers making those groups look more accident-prone than they are. These are the relative risks, like for like, km for km.

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Chris Juden
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Nearholmer
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Re: This may be a first prosecution of an illegal ebike.

Post by Nearholmer »

Pedestrians and cyclists collide all the time on shared paths
Do they?
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CJ
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Re: This may be a first prosecution of an illegal ebike.

Post by CJ »

Nearholmer wrote: 19 Oct 2022, 3:43pm
Pedestrians and cyclists collide all the time on shared paths
Do they?
Not really. This study of pedestrian injuries due to collisions with bicycles and other vehicles from 2005 to 2015 found that over those ten years, a total of 4639 pedestrians were killed or seriously injured by a colliding vehicle, whilst on a verge or footway. And even though cycles are allowed to share quite a lot of verges and footways (some of which became cycleways during that period), only 197 of those collisions involved a pedal cycle. So whilst a pedestrian on the verge or footway may feel protected from road traffic, but at risk from all those bicycles now sharing their supposedly safe space, they are actually some TWENTY TIMES more likely to be killed or seriously injured by a motor vehicle invading that space!

Collisions between pedestrians and cyclists are nevertheless of concern. The study period was deliberately chosen to coincide with ten years over which a lot of paths were designated shared use. This proliferation of path sharing can take some of the credit for a modest (19%) increase in cycle traffic, and some of the blame for a doubling in the number of pedestrians KSI in collisions with pedal cycles, in 2015 versus 2005. Just bear in mind that it's a pretty small problem compared to the pedestrian carnage when motor vehicles stray from the road.

I think we're on a learning curve in this country and that there will be less worry and fewer mistakes when pedestrians and cyclists become accustomed to sharing space, as they do without any fuss in most other European countries. It would help a lot if we stuck to the same rules as apply on the roads - like they do much better in most other European countries.

The bodies responsible for these paths often put up signs instructing cyclists to be careful. That's all very well but so vague, patronising and not really helpful. How about some signs reminding cyclists 1) to keep left, just like we would on the road, 2) to ring our bells and slow to 8mph max before blind corners and before passing pedestrians? I suppose this is too much to ask, but how about a few gentle instructions for pedestrians too, such as: 1) Please keep to the right side of the path (so bikes coming at you from behind pass further away) 2) Especially if walking as a couple or a group, make sure that both/all of you know to move right when a bicycle approaches. 3) If you bring a dog please keep it on a short lead. It shouldn't be entirely down to cyclists to make this work. If we all try to make things easier and more predictable for one another, we should all get along much better.
Chris Juden
One lady owner, never raced or jumped.
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