Investment Zones...

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rjb
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Re: Investment Zones...

Post by rjb »

Nearholmer wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 4:39pm Last time there was large-scale, unregulated industrial development in Cornwall, it left a legacy of environmental despoliation from which the place has taken two centuries to recover, so the key is to have properly regulated development, not the Wild West. Since JR-M famously worships the C18th, it probably is time to be afraid
Even more so that he now welcomes fracking in his garden.


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Mick F
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Re: Investment Zones...

Post by Mick F »

Many - nearly 30years ago - we lived in the old terrace up the hill and it was a level walk to the Queens Head perhaps half a mile.

Lovely quiet lane, and dark - especially on the way home!
We used to see glow worms glowing in the darkness back then.

Many years later, the council fitted street lighting.
We made our feelings known generally, and to the landlord - Freddie May - and he was sage and wise, and told us, "It's just progress. Live with it."

Since then, the progress has to build new housing and the nice quiet lane has become a road.

Sad, but progress happens, despite some of us oldies not wanting it, but Freddie was right in his words. It's just progress and we have to live with it.
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Paulatic
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Re: Investment Zones...

Post by Paulatic »

rjb wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 6:01pm The Somerset investment zone will be at the gravity site North of Bridgwater and within easy access to the M5 and the main line railway. Ian Liddell Grainger is the MP. The site was formerly the Royal Ordance Factory making explosives. I believe they were hoping to attract investment for a giga battery facility. Elon Musk has inspected the site by all accounts.
I prefer batteries to explosives. :)
Isn’t the idea behind these investment zones that your battery maker is going to be outwith any safety, environmental and other regulations. They will be free to offer 60 hour week jobs, no holiday pay and poison the land.
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Jdsk
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Re: Investment Zones...

Post by Jdsk »

Paulatic wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 9:35pm
rjb wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 6:01pm The Somerset investment zone will be at the gravity site North of Bridgwater and within easy access to the M5 and the main line railway. Ian Liddell Grainger is the MP. The site was formerly the Royal Ordance Factory making explosives. I believe they were hoping to attract investment for a giga battery facility. Elon Musk has inspected the site by all accounts.
I prefer batteries to explosives. :)
Isn’t the idea behind these investment zones that your battery maker is going to be outwith any safety, environmental and other regulations. They will be free to offer 60 hour week jobs, no holiday pay and poison the land.
We don't know. But idea is probably better wording than plan.

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Re: Investment Zones...

Post by Nearholmer »

There need to be some consistency in the argument
My argument is simple and entirely internally consistent: development needs to be suitably regulated in order to protect the environment and natural ecosystems, because if we don’t do that we will end up fighting a losing battle to continue our existence in the midst of a toxic wilderness.

There are ways of protecting the environment while also creating decent jobs and homes. It is a false dichotomy to say that we have to have either jobs and homes, or a decently cared for environment, it is possible to have both. Which is good really, because it is absolutely desperately necessary to have both to ensure our long-term survival.

Anything that involves reducing or removing regulation that is intended to protect the environment rings loud alarm bells in my head, it’s something that needs scrutiny. It would be very odd if, for instance, we were spending tax revenue to pay farmers to “re-wild” parts of their land, which we are, at the same time as giving tax-breaks to somebody else down the road to “de-wild” other bits of land that are currently protected.
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Paulatic
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Re: Investment Zones...

Post by Paulatic »

Nearholmer wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 10:31pm [

Anything that involves reducing or removing regulation that is intended to protect the environment rings loud alarm bells in my head, it’s something that needs scrutiny. It would be very odd if, for instance, we were spending tax revenue to pay farmers to “re-wild” parts of their land, which we are, at the same time as giving tax-breaks to somebody else down the road to “de-wild” other bits of land that are currently protected.
Still uncertain but that might easily read as 'which we were promised'.
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Bsteel
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Re: Investment Zones...

Post by Bsteel »

Are Investment Zones the same as Enterprise Zones and Freeports ?
If so, wouldn't that that create some interesting customs borders ?



Edited as I misread the thread title
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al_yrpal
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Re: Investment Zones...

Post by al_yrpal »

I thought freeports were just zones where stuff can be imported worked on and exported without any duties or taxes being applied? These are enterprise zones and no doubt there will be cash incentives to create jobs.

I dont think that freedom allows suspension of workplace regulations or suspension anything else including environmental regulations.

The Health and Safety people and Trade Unions will no doubt make sure all safety regs and employment regs are observed.

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Tim Holman
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Re: Investment Zones...

Post by Tim Holman »

The only "consistency" which will be applied is to ensure that the rich are enabled to become richer at any expense, countryside or country dwellers or country lovers notwithstanding. The rest of us can go jump in a gravelpit.
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Bsteel
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Re: Investment Zones...

Post by Bsteel »

al_yrpal wrote: 4 Oct 2022, 10:38am I thought freeports were just zones where stuff can be imported worked on and exported without any duties or taxes being applied? These are enterprise zones and no doubt there will be cash incentives to create jobs.
Given the tax reliefs listed in the 2021 Budget which included NIC relief for a potential 5 years it sounds a good reason to relocate your business to a freeport.
jois
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Re: Investment Zones...

Post by jois »

Nearholmer wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 10:31pm
There need to be some consistency in the argument
My argument is simple and entirely internally consistent: development needs to be suitably regulated in order to protect the environment and natural ecosystems, because if we don’t do that we will end up fighting a losing battle to continue our existence in the midst of a toxic wilderness.

There are ways of protecting the environment while also creating decent jobs and homes. It is a false dichotomy to say that we have to have either jobs and homes, or a decently cared for environment, it is possible to have both. Which is good really, because it is absolutely desperately necessary to have both to ensure our long-term survival.

Anything that involves reducing or removing regulation that is intended to protect the environment rings loud alarm bells in my head, it’s something that needs scrutiny. It would be very odd if, for instance, we were spending tax revenue to pay farmers to “re-wild” parts of their land, which we are, at the same time as giving tax-breaks to somebody else down the road to “de-wild” other bits of land that are currently protected.
It does seem to depend on using quite evocative terms such as " toxic wilderness" which are somewhat ill defined and dependent almost entirely on your imagination.

If there is some actual evidence that a toxic wilderness will be the outcome I'm on your side of the debate , but I doubt anything remotely resembling that is the intent or the even vaguely possibly out come.


If your objecting to the general principal of building home and work places in national parks then yes it is a dichotomy, if your think they can be built as long as they don't damage the eco system beyond that which is necessary to build things, then you should be relatively happy with the outcome. I'm very sure they are not going to reverse environmental/ pollution laws and start throwing drums of chrome hex in lake Windermere to get a toxic wilderness


Perhaps if you were clear in general terms what your objection was we could discuss it better
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Mick F
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Re: Investment Zones...

Post by Mick F »

One day, I will be dead.

Do I care about the future?

No.
Mick F. Cornwall
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Re: Investment Zones...

Post by Nearholmer »

If there is some actual evidence that a toxic wilderness will be the outcome I'm on your side of the debate , but I doubt anything remotely resembling that is the intent or the even vaguely possibly out come.
Perhaps I wasn’t clear: what I’m saying is that an absence of regulation over development, in general, will result in a toxic wilderness, which is why we need to scrutinise any and every move in that direction.

There are plenty of historic examples of unregulated development creating wildernesses which have taken decades to put right (dust bowls in the US is a good example; the destruction of habitat in the Thames by industrial pollution is another; nearer to to home in this case heavy-metal polluted run-off from mining for metal ores), and there are current examples (burning-off of forests in multiple places across the world), so it’s not a wild, imaginary scenario, it’s what happens in the absence of regulation.

In the UK we have some pretty good environmental protections in place, so look very, very carefully indeed at anything which threatens to “roll back” those protections is what I’m saying.

Look very carefully indeed at whether protections against the discharge of raw sewage into rivers are being respected, or are under threat, or are being improved, for instance.
cycle tramp
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Re: Investment Zones...

Post by cycle tramp »

Mick F wrote: 4 Oct 2022, 4:29pm One day, I will be dead.

Do I care about the future?

No.
And so will I. But it £¿€&!ng makes me angry that the simple things I enjoy today, like watching the flight of a dragon fly, the call of blackbirds in the evening, the smell of woodland after the rain, the march of the year played out in the foliage of the hedgerow.. might be lost to future generations and lost because advertising has placed the want of another smart phone, or a bigger t.v. or a bigger car in the minds of those who are emotionally hurt, and have been told that the only way they can stop hurting us to buy more stuff they don't need.
It's been over seven years since I've last heard a cricket singing in the long grass. I've never once seen a glow worm and my life is poorer for it.

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Dingdong
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Re: Investment Zones...

Post by Dingdong »

jois wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 4:29pm
cycle tramp wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 4:20pm ..well following the out cry from the RSPB it looks like both Cornwall and Somerset are to become investment zones, complete with a deregulation of planning controls...

.....how damned angry am I right now..?
Is that bad, don't they need investment ??

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Probably frack the living daylights out of it.. :oops:
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