Identity, and what it means to you.

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peetee
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Identity, and what it means to you.

Post by peetee »

In the last few months it has become obvious to me that your identity, as far as the government is concerned, should consist of a uniform set of documents and opting out is not a choice.
Last year I struggled to access my Self Assessment return. For many years this was controlled by a multi-digit passcode which worked very well but recently I can only view previous returns with that code; full access requires multiple ID checks - including passport info. At the time I didn’t have a passport so I was, effectively, locked out and, had my financial status been any different, in breach of the Inland Revenue rules for submitting self-employed earnings.
Today I received notification that I need to update my driving license. It seems like I need a passport for this too. The time period stated was every ten years but three years ago I applied to change my address on my driving license and that included submitting a new photo. I can only assume that they are not being entirely honest about the need and they require some conformation of my passport info so all the ID can be positively linked.
So, my question is why is it now a compulsory and practical necessity to own a valid passport to operate as a lawful citizen within the boundaries of the UK?
Last edited by peetee on 5 Oct 2022, 10:51am, edited 1 time in total.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
yakdiver
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Re: Identity, and what it means to you.

Post by yakdiver »

I updated my driving licence without a passport
axel_knutt
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Re: Identity, and what it means to you.

Post by axel_knutt »

The only ID I have is my driving licence, although when I open bank accounts I don't appear to need anything, so I assume they just check my banking history and credit reference agencies or whatever. Anyhow, I was recently considering surrendering my licence, but decided to check what alternative forms of ID the banking industry uses, so that I don't find myself unable to open bank accounts.

A pointless waste of time that was. All I got was shunted from pillar to post, and a load of obtuse responses that patently weren't an answer to my query. One suggestion was some form of government ID card, but when I tried to get one I either didn't have the ID I needed, or couldn't access the website, I don't recall which now.

I've had similar problems when you're asked to get something countersigned by a 'professional' who has known you at least two years. Presumably you're expected to ask your GP, but they're all locums who blow in and out with the wind here, and I don't know any other professionals. Last time I asked a librarian, but he's gone now, and I'm not a regular in the library any more either.

I blame it all on the public opinion that won't have any truck with National ID cards for everyone.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
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peetee
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Re: Identity, and what it means to you.

Post by peetee »

yakdiver wrote: 5 Oct 2022, 10:23am I updated my driving licence without a passport
Was that recently?
63E79690-DC3E-4E0F-9DD4-81053E1C917B.jpeg
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
pwa
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Re: Identity, and what it means to you.

Post by pwa »

That must be for applying online, rather than through the post. Lots of people have driving licences but no passport. On the wider point though, it certainly makes life easier if you have several forms of ID. Banks in particular can be very demanding. It is a consequence of trying to clamp down on the activities of criminals.
PH
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Re: Identity, and what it means to you.

Post by PH »

peetee wrote: 5 Oct 2022, 10:12am Last year I struggled to access my Self Assessment return. For many years this was controlled by a multi-digit passcode which worked very well but recently I can only view previous returns with that code; full access requires multiple ID checks - including passport info. At the time I didn’t have a passport so I was, effectively, locked out and, had my financial status been any different, in breach of the Inland Revenue rules for submitting self-employed earnings.
Via the Government Gateway?
I assisted someone with registering and submitting their first Self Assessment last winter, I'm pretty sure the preferred options were passport OR driving license and if neither of those were available it could be done via your bank, though that looked more complicated. If someone is so far off grid not to have any suitable ID there's still the option to use the paper form.
peetee
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Re: Identity, and what it means to you.

Post by peetee »

Government Gateway, yes. And they require more than one additional ID one of which, rather weirdly, had something to do with outstanding loans or credit. :?
I only had my driving license so was rather stuck.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
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PedallingSquares
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Re: Identity, and what it means to you.

Post by PedallingSquares »

peetee wrote: 5 Oct 2022, 10:48am
yakdiver wrote: 5 Oct 2022, 10:23am I updated my driving licence without a passport
Was that recently?63E79690-DC3E-4E0F-9DD4-81053E1C917B.jpeg
I updated my my ID c...erm Drivers Licence in June.My passport is due renewal next year so I just had to have a photo done at the PO where i took my renewal.They used my (current)ID card and Bank card as proof.
Last edited by PedallingSquares on 5 Oct 2022, 12:53pm, edited 1 time in total.
Psamathe
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Re: Identity, and what it means to you.

Post by Psamathe »

Re: Online Self-Assesment: in the past I always downloaded the final filing and stored locally (as pdf). But I gave-up Self Assessments as it was always unwanted grief and seemed to take ages to sort out.

Ian
yakdiver
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Location: North Baddesley Hampshire

Re: Identity, and what it means to you.

Post by yakdiver »

peetee wrote: 5 Oct 2022, 10:48am
yakdiver wrote: 5 Oct 2022, 10:23am I updated my driving licence without a passport
Was that recently?63E79690-DC3E-4E0F-9DD4-81053E1C917B.jpeg
A couple of months ago at the post office
francovendee
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Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: Identity, and what it means to you.

Post by francovendee »

I don't know if it's because I live in France but having a UK pension every year or two I'm asked to provide proof I'm alive. At least I think that's what the aim is.
I'm sent a form (all in English) that I have to fill out and get authenticated. The list of acceptable people able to sign include legal and medical professionals. I could get the doctor to sign it but as we know the secretary in the Mairie we see her instead. She has little or no English so we have to explain what the forms states. In reality it is only the Maire who is on the list but he's never about so she signs it and puts her full job title on it. Most importantly she puts the official rubber stamp on it.
It's never been questioned and I think having the official stamp is the key.
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al_yrpal
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Re: Identity, and what it means to you.

Post by al_yrpal »

Due to all the hassle involved my second wife hasnt changed her surname to mine. With a year long tussle with the DVLA in mind we just cant be doing with it.

Al
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thirdcrank
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Re: Identity, and what it means to you.

Post by thirdcrank »

A daft example of this is the renewal of the Senior Citizens' (?) bus pass.

I realised quite by chance a couple of months ago that both our bus passes were on the point of expiring and we'd had no warning of the imminent need to renew, even though an email address is one of their obvious requirements for an online service. Anyway, I tried to log on to my account and it kept rejecting my password as wrong. It took a little while and quite a bit of steam out of my ears to twig that what it meant was that they had increased the security requirements of passwords in the five years since my last renewal. FWIW, at 77 I've had the OAPs' bus pass since reaching age 60. The missing three years were the result of the person at the post office - the only place to do the application in those days - messing up the extra-large rubber date stamp, getting a 9 upside-down so I only got two years.

Renewing for mrs thirdcrank, third time round at 75, was worse. eg Although an existing OAP bus pass is listed as suitable ID for a new one, they would not accept mrs thirdcrank's as evidence of her age, although her driving licence was accepted.

Once we both had our new bus passes our elected mayor was, by coincidence, on the telly, waffling about everything she was doing to support bus travel. Prompted by that, I sent an email, suggesting warning senior citizens their bus passes were about to expire would be useful. As something of a footnote, I suggested that it might be useful to get somebody living in the real world to review the level of security needed for senior citizens' bus passes. ie This is different to other types of bus pass.

After a long delay, I received a reply saying that new bus passes could not be issued automatically - which was not what I had suggested - followed by an explanation of all the security risks if a senior citizen's bus pass got into the wrong hands. IMO my letter got into the wrong hands: somebody not living in the real world
Psamathe
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Re: Identity, and what it means to you.

Post by Psamathe »

A few years ago I was in Peru and my car tax became due so I e-mailed DVLA asking them to e-mail me trhe magic code they print & post so I could pay online. They refused saying I could just go to a nearby Post Office (in Peru!).

A lot of exchange of e-mails me asking how many times somebody has fraudulently paid car tax for somebody else - no answer on that.

Eventually I just defaulted, e-mailing them that I had made every effort to pay but they had failed to cooperate and that I would defend myself in court should they try to fine me. They didn't fine me but it highlighted how daft and ineffective some of the ID checks companies make.

Another example is call EDF and they'll ask for your account number, 1st line of address and postcode - something printed on most letters they send to you so somebody nicking your post can spend hours in a menu system listening to on-hold music fraudulently.

Ian
Psamathe
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Re: Identity, and what it means to you.

Post by Psamathe »

One thing that does concern me is when calling a company and they ask you for something you have never told them. e.g. I've never told my water supplier my date of birth but call them and they'll verify it with you - means they've been harvesting and storing information about you from unknown unidentified 3rd parties (of unknown reliability).

Ian
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