Battery pack obsolescence.

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
PH
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Re: Battery pack obsolescence.

Post by PH »

stodd wrote: 23 Nov 2022, 7:24pm
PH wrote: 23 Nov 2022, 5:59pm My understanding is that well managed batteries ought to be good for at least 1,000 full charges, that's 50,000 miles for my use.
I think that both the number of charges and the distance per charge are very optimistic for most people's use. Batteries deteriorate with age as well as with distance. A quality well managed battery should last 10 years if you are lucky. Unless you have a very regular and predictable use of battery it is difficult to run an optimal charging routine.
The range is based on my own experience doing deliveries on an E-bike for the last 14 months, around 200 miles a week. Although I try not to run a battery down, I'm frequently over 40 miles with a bar left, this is with a Bosch 500Wh Powerback and is almost exactly what Bosch predict in their range calculator. 625Wh batteries are becoming commonplace and there's also a 750 available, so mileages could be adjusted accordingly.
Battery lifespan is a hot topic, there's plenty of research and development going on with improvements all the time. The idea that I can get 1,000 cycles from a battery comes from Bosch, they've been right about the other stuff so I've no reason to doubt it. Even then they're not suggesting the battery would be dead, just that it's capacity will have fallen below 80%. I see no reason why E-bike lithium-ion batteries should be any different to any other lithium-ion battery. EV batteries are reported to be good for 1,500 - 2,000 cycles and then be good for other purposes, several car manufacturers offer 100,000 mile battery warranties.
stodd
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Joined: 6 Jun 2018, 10:24am

Re: Battery pack obsolescence.

Post by stodd »

yakdiver wrote: 23 Nov 2022, 8:59pm recelling would have cost more, but my batterys are easy to come by
As you suggest, recelling is generally only worthwhile if a battery can't be replaced for some reason. You are paying UK labour rates for a one-off build rather than Chinese labour rates for mass production.

There is a marginal environmental benefit of reusing the case (and often BMS), but almost all the environmental impact is in the cells, which will be the same for recell or new.
WatfordWobble
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Joined: 22 Apr 2020, 12:03pm

Re: Battery pack obsolescence.

Post by WatfordWobble »

I wonder about recelling. I've no experience of it but what if the battery pack is integrated into the bike frames down tube as a number seem to be.

Would recelling a battery pack allow the pack to sit back into the down tube? Some of the battery packs seem to fit so nicely in frames . For example the Temple electric bike looks good and I would be tempted but that battery pack if I wanted to replace would it still be available in say 3 to 5 years?

Maybe I'm over thinking it.
stodd
Posts: 609
Joined: 6 Jun 2018, 10:24am

Re: Battery pack obsolescence.

Post by stodd »

Even frame batteries not designed for regular removal are removable for replacement; some more easily than others.

Once removed, the battery case should be recellable with equivalent cells to the original (or larger capacity). There are very few sizes of cell, the majority of ebike batteries use 18650 cells; the same as used in some cars at one extreme, and some torches at the other. More cells in series for higher capacity (wh) and voltage, more in parallel for higher capacity and current.
The battery case won't be changed and will fit back into the frame.

The gotcha is sometimes the 'smart' BMS. For example, in early Bosch batteries if the BMS (integrated battery management system) lost voltage while the cells were replaced it wouldn't work once voltage was reapplied, this made the process of recelling quite tricky. I believe there are even more complicated lockout systems (they tend to call it anti-tamper or similar) in the their newer batteries. I think (not 100% sure) that the frame batteries are more likely to be proprietary and suffer from this.
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