E-bikes for a more sustainable life?

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pwa
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E-bikes for a more sustainable life?

Post by pwa »

I thought some of you might like this article,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-63556273

People in Wales talking about using e-bikes as an alternative to cars. I did once drive past the lady featured at the start of the article and I did note that she was on a steep urban hill that would have made ordinary cycling with a big load rather challenging.
mumbojumbo
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Re: E-bikes for a more sustainable life?

Post by mumbojumbo »

E-bikes will help if they replace use of cars, but not if fit young riders choose them rather than conventional,real bikes.
Carlton green
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Re: E-bikes for a more sustainable life?

Post by Carlton green »

pwa wrote: 26 Nov 2022, 9:07pm I thought some of you might like this article,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-63556273

People in Wales talking about using e-bikes as an alternative to cars. I did once drive past the lady featured at the start of the article and I did note that she was on a steep urban hill that would have made ordinary cycling with a big load rather challenging.
Thank you for sharing, an interesting read.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
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horizon
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Re: E-bikes for a more sustainable life?

Post by horizon »

I'm thinking out loud in this post. I don't claim to have a complete answer. I do wonder though whether as a society and culture we have so far removed ourselves from the physical challenges of daily life that the prospect of walking up a steep hill is simply unthinkable.

This is my instinctive response to the BBC article - somehow it doesn't ring true.

I have noted in the past that I find it a curious paradox of human physiology that, on the one hand, the human being conserves energy and is naturally put off by physical challenge; and on the other desperately needs physical exercise to be healthy.

The lady mentioned in the article has a physically able son who is on his way to play football. Some additional walking up a hill, might not be inappropriate. She, walking with him, might do herself the world of good.

The ebike is undoubtedly a better option than the car and she even says that, "she was definitely getting more exercise now with the e-bike, and was fitter and felt better as a result". "Nevertheless" is my response to that.

I think it a consequence of our car culture that children engage in after-school activities some distance from their homes. I also think it a consequence of our car culture that people shop at supermarkets some distance from their homes. I think it a consequence of our car culture that children must travel some distance to their school. Trying to replicate that with a bicycle is, yes, almost impossible; but before suggesting that the ebike is the solution, it may be worth asking what the real problem is.

Many things cannot be done without power. But the result is that the tools we use spread out into our lives until hard cardiovascular exertion outside sport or the gym is simply seen as an aberration. That, to me, doesn't seem right.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
grufty
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Re: E-bikes for a more sustainable life?

Post by grufty »

Good thinking Horizon,
+1 to that
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Cugel
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Re: E-bikes for a more sustainable life?

Post by Cugel »

horizon wrote: 28 Nov 2022, 9:59pm I'm thinking out loud in this post. I don't claim to have a complete answer. I do wonder though whether as a society and culture we have so far removed ourselves from the physical challenges of daily life that the prospect of walking up a steep hill is simply unthinkable.

(snip)

Many things cannot be done without power. But the result is that the tools we use spread out into our lives until hard cardiovascular exertion outside sport or the gym is simply seen as an aberration. That, to me, doesn't seem right.
Perhaps you lead a life in a milieu wherein most employ a machine to replace all kinds of physical labour, from large to small (even trivial)? I have been through such cultural islands on which the human bodies are neglected but everyone has a dozen or more "labour saving" devices. These devices often save mental effort as well as physical labour, by the way, creating not just feeble bodies but feeble minds. However ....

There are still many modes of life and work in which humans perform strenuous physical and mental tasks, even when using labour saving devices. Farming, building and many other such trades are examples. There are also many folk who have hobbies, pastimes and even obsessions which involve a lot of hours per week doing physical stuff, cycling being one obvious example.

But it is the case that modern children can't acquire the habits of physical activities of many kinds because their time and attention has been suborned by the a huge range of devices that fundamentally provide passive entertainment rather than physical and mental engagement. Some defend game playing on a screen as "mental engagement", which it is - but of a very limited and specific kind that fails to provide the wide range of benefits that old fashioned "playing out" provided former generations of children.

Add to the rabid marketing of passive entertainment devices the even more rabid marketing of junk fud and drank and our society produces not only physically unfit children but children who are also obese or otherwise degraded by poor nutrition. Then add on top of all that parent paranoia about stranger-danger, knife-wielding thugs of gutter press screams and the mad motorcar driving that parents themselves probably indulge in ....... and children are often confined to the house!

**************
Some devices are enhancers of physical development, bicycles being one obvious example. But it would be a mistake to put e-bikes as they're currently defined and made into the category of things that prevent physical development. Evidence both anecdotal and from various studies beloved by the cod-scientific seem to suggest that e-bikes are actually encouraging more exercise in a whole range of otherwise sedentary folk.

The mistake is to misunderstand how e-bikes work. They don't do all the power production for the rider, they merely enhance or amplify what the rider still has to produce, generally on a sliding scale (more e-power for more leg power). The motorised bikes that do suborn physical development of the rider are the e-motorbikes that require little or no rider effort. Those are not e-bikes as currently defined, by manufacturers or the law.

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Dingdong
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Re: E-bikes for a more sustainable life?

Post by Dingdong »

I see a lot of kids zooming around on escooters, they seem to be having a great lark! Agreed though, that increased zombification of the yoof is a problem. Perhaps if ebikes were marketed (and technically fitted for) a training programme. I'm sure there's software out there already to enable this?
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Re: E-bikes for a more sustainable life?

Post by Dingdong »

This is coming to our town next summer... :mrgreen:
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Dingdong
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Re: E-bikes for a more sustainable life?

Post by Dingdong »

Can't say I'm waiting on it with baited breath! :lol:
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Cugel
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Re: E-bikes for a more sustainable life?

Post by Cugel »

Dingdong wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 9:48am This is coming to our town next summer... :mrgreen:
Do you have a local disused canal? :-)

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Dingdong
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Re: E-bikes for a more sustainable life?

Post by Dingdong »

Cugel wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 11:06am
Dingdong wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 9:48am This is coming to our town next summer... :mrgreen:
Do you have a local disused canal? :-)

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I think I shouldve said 'coming to a shopping mall near me soon'!!!
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Cugel
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Re: E-bikes for a more sustainable life?

Post by Cugel »

Dingdong wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 11:09am
Cugel wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 11:06am
Dingdong wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 9:48am This is coming to our town next summer... :mrgreen:
Do you have a local disused canal? :-)

Cugel Vandal
I think I shouldve said 'coming to a shopping mall near me soon'!!!
Well, if you have a canal near the consumer-victim shop-trap, this will ease matters. Place the scooter in the shopping trolley and then perform the classic Scouse "down the banks" manoeuvre*.

* This is not a recommended procedure, especially by Cugel, who refuses any responsibility for a disused canal becoming full of junk and has 68 witnesses to say he was riding up a mynydd 400 miles away at the time.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
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Dingdong
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Re: E-bikes for a more sustainable life?

Post by Dingdong »

Cugel wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 11:14am
Dingdong wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 11:09am
Cugel wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 11:06am

Do you have a local disused canal? :-)

Cugel Vandal
I think I shouldve said 'coming to a shopping mall near me soon'!!!
Well, if you have a canal near the consumer-victim shop-trap, this will ease matters. Place the scooter in the shopping trolley and then perform the classic Scouse "down the banks" manoeuvre*.

* This is not a recommended procedure, especially by Cugel, who refuses any responsibility for a disused canal becoming full of junk and has 68 witnesses to say he was riding up a mynydd 400 miles away at the time.
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Cugel
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Re: E-bikes for a more sustainable life?

Post by Cugel »

Dingdong wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 11:14am
Cugel wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 11:14am
Dingdong wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 11:09am

I think I shouldve said 'coming to a shopping mall near me soon'!!!
Well, if you have a canal near the consumer-victim shop-trap, this will ease matters. Place the scooter in the shopping trolley and then perform the classic Scouse "down the banks" manoeuvre*.

* This is not a recommended procedure, especially by Cugel, who refuses any responsibility for a disused canal becoming full of junk and has 68 witnesses to say he was riding up a mynydd 400 miles away at the time.
I knew that was you!
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“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
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Jdsk
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Re: E-bikes for a more sustainable life?

Post by Jdsk »

NB date.

"‘It feels very fun and freeing’: US sees ebike boom after years of false starts":
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... rica-sales

Jonathan
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