How long before.....?

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc. that are legal in the UK
Dingdong
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How long before.....?

Post by Dingdong »

Every retail branded bike comes prepped ready for a battery and motor as standard? And who would drive the development? The Chinese or Western manufacturers?
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Vantage
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Re: How long before.....?

Post by Vantage »

It'll never happen.
If I could ride without the motor and battery on mine I would do so in a heartbeat. It's too restricting.
It has its benefits, but there are a billion downsides. Limited range. Reliability. Constant charging. The sheer weight. The space it takes up.
There's a lot of folk who still think of the bicycle as a simple means of transport and enjoyment.
Bill


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PH
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Re: How long before.....?

Post by PH »

I predict that within a decade the only people cycling without assistance will be a subsect of enthusiasts. Everybody riding for transport will choose some form of micro mobility, though I'm less sure how many of those will be bicycles. Even among the enthusiasts, those who's primary interest isn't the physical exertion are likely to choose assistance, as we're seeing with eMTB's.
E-bikes will remain designed as such from the outset, I don't see any development of duel purpose bikes, the criteria is different. That doesn't make conversions impossible, even desirable if you already have the bike, but why wouldn't someone buying new choose something intended specifically for their use?
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simonineaston
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Re: How long before.....?

Post by simonineaston »

A while ago I played a simple mind game in which I imagined 'lecky motors for bikes that weighed much the same as regular hubs, and batteries that had 50 mile duration and were about the same size and weight as a Yorkie bar... everybody who could afford such would buy! Why ever not?? Software simply lets you dial in however much help you want...
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
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Cugel
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Re: How long before.....?

Post by Cugel »

Dingdong wrote: 28 Nov 2022, 10:53am Every retail branded bike comes prepped ready for a battery and motor as standard? And who would drive the development? The Chinese or Western manufacturers?
When Porche, who now own Fazua, ramp up their glamour-spells (AKA adverts) and everyone wants a bicycle that can be used with or without the motor yet look the same in both modes albeit being 3.5kg lighter without the battery/motor module in but rather an empty container which one may fill full of cake, a waterproof jacket and a book for reading at the halfway resting point.

There are three such bicycles in our hoose, the noo. I often ride one without the motor/battery in and make it lighter still by leaving the cake out of the empty battery-motor module. 10kg is the weight of the bike without the motor/battery and cake. You'd be hard-pressed to distinguish it from most current racy-style non e-bikes, despite the fat downtube.

Some will suggest that rear hub-motored e-bikes have these characteristics. Not so! The batteries are often not removable, the rear hub motor can only be replaced if a whole new wheel goes in and the things are not that good up the hills on their sputtering e-power. :-) (Just goad-teasing there, Bonzo).

Cugel
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Dingdong
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Re: How long before.....?

Post by Dingdong »

Vantage wrote: 28 Nov 2022, 11:26am It'll never happen.
If I could ride without the motor and battery on mine I would do so in a heartbeat. It's too restricting.
It has its benefits, but there are a billion downsides. Limited range. Reliability. Constant charging. The sheer weight. The space it takes up.
There's a lot of folk who still think of the bicycle as a simple means of transport and enjoyment.
I think a lot of those problems will be solved in the next few years. Especially range and fast charging. Probably battery weight and motor size will fall also.

Having a hybridised bike that you could strip the motor/battery out of at will, to ride it 'old school' would I think prove popular.

But I think any of the big manufacturers who weren't producing bikes which were capable of electrification would be in trouble pretty quickly. Only matter of time I reckon.
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horizon
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Re: How long before.....?

Post by horizon »

I've updated my old thread (yes, the five years really are up!):

viewtopic.php?p=1739662#p1739662
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
mattheus
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Re: How long before.....?

Post by mattheus »

Vantage wrote: 28 Nov 2022, 11:26am ...


There's a lot of folk who still think of the bicycle as a simple means of transport and enjoyment.
and cheap!

There will ALWAYS be young healthy people with limited cash for whom a basic (bio)bike does the job.
geocycle
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Re: How long before.....?

Post by geocycle »

PH wrote: 28 Nov 2022, 12:10pm I predict that within a decade the only people cycling without assistance will be a subsect of enthusiasts. Everybody riding for transport will choose some form of micro mobility, though I'm less sure how many of those will be bicycles. Even among the enthusiasts, those who's primary interest isn't the physical exertion are likely to choose assistance, as we're seeing with eMTB's.
E-bikes will remain designed as such from the outset, I don't see any development of duel purpose bikes, the criteria is different. That doesn't make conversions impossible, even desirable if you already have the bike, but why wouldn't someone buying new choose something intended specifically for their use?
Yep, e-bikes will be the standard for adults wanting a form of transport and weekend recreation. They are already encroaching on the hybrid mainstream market. Halfords have currently got 34 electric bikes in their range, most are hybrid. Those of us that don't want e-assist will be buying 'sports cycles' or something.
Dingdong
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Re: How long before.....?

Post by Dingdong »

For the first time my lbs currently n has more ebikes, than normal bikes.
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horizon
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Re: How long before.....?

Post by horizon »

Dingdong wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 10:56am For the first time my lbs currently n has more ebikes, than normal bikes.
Interesting ... very interesting. This I suppose is the tipping point.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Dingdong
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Re: How long before.....?

Post by Dingdong »

I reckon it'll be like digital photography - there will be a few diehards who cling on to film, but eventually the tidal wave of something better sweeps everything away before it.

I was thinking the other day, there are circumstances when even a small amount of assistance would be very welcome: at the end of a long steep climb, or into a punishment headwind on the last 5 miles home!
francovendee
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Re: How long before.....?

Post by francovendee »

The idea of a bike that has an easily removable motor and battery would meet my needs. I don't need assistance where I live but when venturing further I could tackle hillier parts if I could easily modify my bike.
I'm one of the rare breed who only has one bike and want to keep it that way.
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Cugel
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Re: How long before.....?

Post by Cugel »

Last Spring I bought one of these albeit for a mere £3500 in a sale. Very expensive, I know - although with 42% off the list price it still seemed a bargain.

https://winstanleysbikes.co.uk/lapierre ... ctric-bike

It's really more bike than I need but it seemed a good buy against future decrepitude. After all, although I'm only 15 & 3/4 years old on the inside, the outside is 73 and won't get younger despite all the blood of young virgins I drink. (Just kidding there, honestly).

It weights 13.5kg with the motor/battery in and just over 10kg with an empty motor/battery container in the down tube rather than the gubbins-filled one. It rides like a real proper racing bike although I have the bars set at near the same height as the saddle, with a Redshift boingy stem. It's fast, leaps up hills with or without the motor and goes down them again like a skier on amphetamines!

So, even if Fazua goes bust and the battery/motor goes phut after another 125,000 kilometres .... I still have a very rideable and fast bicycle.

**************
There are many styles of bicycles with this Fazua system enabling them to be used with or without the motor/battery. The above is perhaps the lightest (along with a similar Pinarello of similar price but no discounts). I also have a Vitus E-substance bike that weighs 14.5kg with the motor in and just over 11kg with the empty container in instead.

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/vitus-e-substa ... e-bike-105

This often gets discounted. I got mine for £3000 and I notice an alloy-framed version they have with 25% off at the moment for around £2600 and a bit.

Mind, it gets heavier when one adds big fat tyres, a rack, mudguards, etc.. But then so do ordinary bikes.

I'd recommend this style of e-bike to anyone wanting just the motor-power - and sometimes not - without vast amounts of added weight or a lock-in to spares or changes of parts that mean it's impossible to change anything much. The final positive, for me, is that even with the motor and battery in, the software allows the rider to set assistance levels to an absolute minimum; or to levels that require very large output from the cyclist to get large output help from the motor.

In short, they're just like the bike you ride now but with a magic leg-power fairy hiding in them. And the fairy can be put in the bike-part cupboard when you don't need it.

Cugel
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mattheus
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Re: How long before.....?

Post by mattheus »

That really does sound a big advance for the "still able" rider!
Am I correct that - due to legislation - it still doesn't help you in common club/social scenarios i.e. on the flat? If you want to keep up with a group doing 17-18mph on the flat, the assist (" magic leg-power fairy ") is nowhere to be seen?
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