Vitamin D - how much?

UpWrong
Posts: 2401
Joined: 31 May 2009, 12:16pm
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire

Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by UpWrong »

I developed asthma around 5 years ago after a lot of work stress and a trip to the Philippines, including 3 days in Manilla, one of the most polluted cities I guess. The long haul flight back was probably an assault on my lungs too. I couldn't stop coughing when I got back to the UK. I was diagnosed with asthma and have since been dependent on inhaled corticosteroids. Anyway, I learnt back then that there is weak evidence that Vit D can ameliorate asthma so have taken 1000 or 2000iu every day since. I was separately invovled as a researcher in a Vit D trial of 3000iu a day which was thought to be the safe limit for table supplementation.
User avatar
simonineaston
Posts: 7993
Joined: 9 May 2007, 1:06pm
Location: ...at a cricket ground

Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by simonineaston »

Professor Tim Spector, a specialist in diet and epidemiology, has written a book in which he looks into sundry popular and widely-promoted beliefs that inform a large part of what we eat. He focuses on high quality studies and is often highly sceptical of narrow studies, especially those funded, one way and another, by the food industry. His book Spoon Fed is very informative and available on Amazon. It includes multiple references to vit. D. and the studies that look into its effects.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07 ... k_ro_title
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
toontra
Posts: 1182
Joined: 21 Dec 2007, 11:01am
Location: London

Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by toontra »

Since the first lockdown I've been on 4000iu daily in the form of a tablet with K2 included. Coming up for 3 years and no illnesses of any kind (including Covid or even a cold). Doesn't prove anything but safe to say I don't think it's doing me any harm.
irc
Posts: 5189
Joined: 3 Dec 2008, 2:22pm
Location: glasgow

Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by irc »

axel_knutt
Posts: 2869
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 12:20pm

Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by axel_knutt »

irc wrote: 27 Nov 2022, 11:11pm Article on Vit D here.

https://www.patrickholford.com/covid-up ... m-kendrik/
Holford's notorious for quackery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Holford
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
irc
Posts: 5189
Joined: 3 Dec 2008, 2:22pm
Location: glasgow

Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by irc »

axel_knutt wrote: 28 Nov 2022, 7:05pm
irc wrote: 27 Nov 2022, 11:11pm Article on Vit D here.

https://www.patrickholford.com/covid-up ... m-kendrik/
Holford's notorious for quackery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Holford
It isn't his article. Any comments on the content of the article.
Dingdong
Posts: 966
Joined: 22 Apr 2022, 4:59pm

Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by Dingdong »

It's about time in started my winter vitamin program...
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20297
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by mjr »

Jdsk wrote: 19 Feb 2021, 6:23pm
munroad wrote:GP's may not be keen to to check blood levels. Kits are available on line to send a finger prick sample off for about £30.
Paulatic wrote:One did ask the doctor for a level test but they refused to give one.
At the population level and for most individuals it's much smarter to take the recommended supplement than to measure anything and dose accordingly.
Of course it is: tests cost the NHS money, patients buying supplements generally doesn't.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20297
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by mjr »

irc wrote: 28 Nov 2022, 10:22pm
axel_knutt wrote: 28 Nov 2022, 7:05pm
irc wrote: 27 Nov 2022, 11:11pm Article on Vit D here.

https://www.patrickholford.com/covid-up ... m-kendrik/
Holford's notorious for quackery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Holford
It isn't his article. Any comments on the content of the article.
There is almost no content in the article. It's mainly rhetoric and waffle, conflating opinion and facts, with no evidence given for most of the claims and some of them supported by graphs "adapted from" legitimate studies, rather than using the originals. There are just five references given, which don't include any of the sources of the graphs, while one of the five is a newspaper report and another is a broken link. The remaining three are from 2006, 2008 and 2015, so long before covid. I'm sure Dr Kendrick believes his guesses, but he doesn't really explain why anyone else should.

Kendrick is a Cheshire GP who is a member of The International Network of Cholesterol Sceptics (THINKCS) conspiracy theorists and for years denied that there were genetic cases of high cholesterol. He promotes high-fat diets, claims that people with high LDL live longer and that saturated fats can't be dangerous because they "taste so damn delicious". He is a member of the medical board of the Institute for Natural Healing cancer quacks which advocates vitamin supplements as a cancer cure. He has previously promoted Vitamin D as a cure for other illnesses, including influenza. Russia Today has promoted his work. How many alarm bells do you want ringing?

I think it's slightly amusing that Holford is so careful checking what he publishes that he misspells Kendrick's surname in the page address and miscapitalises it in the end credits. Why would you trust these people with your life?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
axel_knutt
Posts: 2869
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 12:20pm

Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by axel_knutt »

I'm taking supplements because my blood test found I was severely deficient. Checking with my diet spreadsheet, I'm getting about 32% of the RDA, and that's with very little sun exposure in summer, as well.
Last edited by axel_knutt on 1 Dec 2022, 2:38pm, edited 1 time in total.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
irc
Posts: 5189
Joined: 3 Dec 2008, 2:22pm
Location: glasgow

Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by irc »

mjr wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 11:38am There is almost no content in the article. It's mainly rhetoric and waffle, conflating opinion and facts, with no evidence given for most of the claims and some of them supported by graphs "adapted from" legitimate studies, rather than using the originals. There are just five references given, which don't include any of the sources of the graphs, while one of the five is a newspaper report and another is a broken link. The remaining three are from 2006, 2008 and 2015, so long before covid. I'm sure Dr Kendrick believes his guesses, but he doesn't really explain why anyone else should

Snip

Why would you trust these people with your life?

On the other hand NHS advice is that we should be taking a Vit D supplement but avoid taking more than 4000 units a day.
Kendricks advice is a 4000 unit dose.

So how is following advice that almost matches NHS advice "risking my life".

They seem to disagree about the ideal dose but that seems like a one way bet to me. The only downside to taking more than the NHS advice but under their safe limit is wasting a few pence per day. So nothing lost and as the "the science" seems uncertain maybe I gain something, maybe I don't

I have settled on 3000 units a day, which with my bodyweight of 16 stone is well under the max safe dose but well over the minimum dose.

After all the science varies At the start of Covid masks were of no benefit in non clinical settings. Then not long after they were so beneficial it was illegal not to wear them in the same places.


"For most people, 10 micrograms (400 IU) per day is enough and is safe. Adults and children over 11 should avoid daily high dose vitamin D supplements containing more than 100 micrograms (4000 IU)"

https://www.gov.scot/publications/vitam ... ge-groups/


"I take Vitamin D3 supplements 4,000 units a day. I strongly advise everyone else to do the same. It is snake oil, and it is free (if provided by the sun)."

https://www.patrickholford.com/covid-up ... m-kendrik/
User avatar
simonineaston
Posts: 7993
Joined: 9 May 2007, 1:06pm
Location: ...at a cricket ground

Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by simonineaston »

The subject of vitamin supplements and their consumption is a hot bed for discussion - and often surprisingly bitter! - arguement. Perhaps not surprising when you take into account of the nature of the 'evidence'. In some ways, the subject takes on many of the elements of religious beliefs. And of course, it's only natural for individuals to be drawn to rhetoric that appears to promise benefits unobtainable elsewhere; at the same time it's human nature for others to want to warn their fellows of what they perceive to be dangerous & misleading cant.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
axel_knutt
Posts: 2869
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 12:20pm

Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by axel_knutt »

Having had a severely deficient blood test it would be interesting to have another test and see how much difference the supplements have made, but they don't seem to do that sort of thing. With supplements I'm getting 282% of the RDA.

Checking all the other minerals & vitamins I have RDA data for, vitamin D is the only one that's below 100%.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
Pendodave
Posts: 527
Joined: 3 Jun 2020, 8:27am

Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by Pendodave »

simonineaston wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 12:12pm The subject of vitamin supplements and their consumption is a hot bed for discussion - and often surprisingly bitter! - arguement. Perhaps not surprising when you take into account of the nature of the 'evidence'. In some ways, the subject takes on many of the elements of religious beliefs. And of course, it's only natural for individuals to be drawn to rhetoric that appears to promise benefits unobtainable elsewhere; at the same time it's human nature for others to want to warn their fellows of what they perceive to be dangerous & misleading cant.
There's quite a useful podcast on the state of research into supplements here :
https://joinzoe.com/learn/podcast-truth ... upplements
I find this series of podcasts quite informative about nutrition, metabolism etc.
I think it's legit.... but how can we tell nowadays?
Psamathe
Posts: 17616
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Vitamin D - how much?

Post by Psamathe »

Pendodave wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 3:11pm
simonineaston wrote: 1 Dec 2022, 12:12pm The subject of vitamin supplements and their consumption is a hot bed for discussion - and often surprisingly bitter! - arguement. Perhaps not surprising when you take into account of the nature of the 'evidence'. In some ways, the subject takes on many of the elements of religious beliefs. And of course, it's only natural for individuals to be drawn to rhetoric that appears to promise benefits unobtainable elsewhere; at the same time it's human nature for others to want to warn their fellows of what they perceive to be dangerous & misleading cant.
There's quite a useful podcast on the state of research into supplements here :
https://joinzoe.com/learn/podcast-truth ... upplements
I find this series of podcasts quite informative about nutrition, metabolism etc.
I think it's legit.... but how can we tell nowadays?
The Professor who started Zoe was on the R4 the other day (just briefly). I wasn't paying complete attention but remember him saying how coffee is actually quite healthy for most people. And smoothies are not. Coffee better than tea.

It was interesting but I generally eat varied stuff so don't over focus on detail analysis of components (hence not paying lots of attention).

Ian
Post Reply