Hilleberg Red vs Yellow Label

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Psamathe
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Hilleberg Red vs Yellow Label

Post by Psamathe »

I've been offered a good deal on a new Hilleberg and ...
I currently have a Rogen - brilliant yellow label tent. But I always feel it's focus is more light weight more than strength. Particularly feel that when camping in windy conditions.

When I head off it's normally for a couple of months camping every day but only in summer/warmer months.

Talking to people (in the trade) who really do know, they seem to suggest I should have a look at Hilleberg's Red label. Heavier but stronger and better suited to longer trips. (Black label are too heavy).

My Rogen spec. weight (packed) is 2.1 Kg whereas the equivalent red label is the Allak spec packed wt 3.3 Kg. That's 1.2 Kg heavier (which for some is massive, for others trivial).

Given I'm touring on my bent (which has a max. load of rear rack 25Kg) and last summer I departed with (and unusually returned with) 21 Kg (unusual as normally I return with a bit more than I departed with).

I've been offered a 20% discount on a new Hilleberg (plus a fixed amount off as well) so worth having a think about Red label/Allak.
I'd appreciate any thoughts e.g.
  • Is 1.2 Kg trivial or massive (on a bend tadpole)?
    Is a red label significantly stronger than yellow label?
    I love the Rogen (size and shape) but are there other Hilleberg's I should consider? (I don't get on with tunnel tents)
    Any other thoughts?
(The offer is for specific reasons and no deadline, not "Black Friday", not a sale or anything)

Many thanks
Ian
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pjclinch
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Re: Hilleberg Red vs Yellow Label

Post by pjclinch »

Psamathe wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 2:48pm Is 1.2 Kg trivial or massive (on a bend tadpole)?
I generally find I'm more worried about bulk than weight. To see if 1.2 Kg bothers you take a water bottle with a litre in it and a big bar of chocolate and see if you notice, but an Allak will take up quite a lot more packing space than a Rogen.
Psamathe wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 2:48pm Is a red label significantly stronger than yellow label?
The poles are the same 9mm ones, but obviously with a full pole coming down over the porches the Allak will flap less in a blow and will ultimately take more structural flak.
The material on the red label is stronger, with a 12 Kg tear strength against (IIRC) 8 Kg for the Yellows, but bear in mind that is subaerially more than most tents, and pretty much anything with a PU coated fly (including numerous bunker-class mountaineering tents).
The groundsheet is thicker on the Red label. If you're worried about the Yellow one that might be a reason to change, or you could just add a footprint.

Whether that boils down to "significant" is down to you. Personally I would take the Allak over the Rogen as a sea kayaking tent as it's a proper 4 season winter capable tent and in the boat I have loads of space and weight is no issue. I would take the Rogen for cycle touring because it's less bulky and I'm less likely to be on a marginal pitch and it's still a genuinely strong shelter.
Psamathe wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 2:48pm I love the Rogen (size and shape) but are there other Hilleberg's I should consider? (I don't get on with tunnel tents)
Any other thoughts?
If you do want a stronger Hilleberg then there's the Jannu, Unna and Soulo. I don't like the Soulo as I find it a bit small, particularly the porch, but loads of folk love them. It's quite a lump for the size but it is verging on bunker class (the Soulo Black Label is the full monty). The Jannu is big enough for two, I'm not keen myself as I prefer twin entrances and while the porch has lots of area it doesn't have much volume as it tapers so much. The Unna's great if you're not bothered about porches (though I am!).
But do sit in a Kaitum if you can. When we got ours we decided against the Allak as it was over our weight limit even though we notionally preferred domes to tunnels... but once we'd started using the Kaitum we got over that very quickly as there is so much space for the weight. Ours is a 3 which is preposterously over-sized for one, but a pal has a 2 which she's used for solo cycle touring and loves it. It's big, dependable and easy to put up. When they launched it I didn't see the point, now I think that at least for my purposes it's one of the greatest tents in the world!

In your place I'd keep the Rogen. Red label will do proper winter mountaineering and I doubt you need that. We bought a Kaitum rather than a Helags because Yellow Label didn't exist back then... Yellow is lighter and weaker, but Hilleberg's idea of a compromise for lighter weight is still a very strong tent by most standards.
If you do decide to trade up to More Bombproof I may well be interested in buying your Rogen!

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...
tatanab
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Re: Hilleberg Red vs Yellow Label

Post by tatanab »

My usual touring is about a month, usually in June in western Europe - so not guaranteed good weather.

Red label - for several years I used a Hilleberg Unna. It served me well in some pretty chilly nights and in torrential rain.
Yellow Label - about 4 years ago I changed to a Hilleberg Niak primarily for the reduced pack size of the lighter materials. This has also survived heavy rain and high winds for many hours with no issue.

Pros/Cons - pro of yellow is reduced pack size. Con is that the door (in mine) is fully mesh whereas the red label was half mesh with a zip up closure over that. This has meant that on a cold and windy night I have wanted to close off that mesh, which I did adequately with my cycle cape.

Truthfully, for a month touring in moderate weather, I would say there is not much to choose. Unless your Rogen is getting old, or you really feel the need for something different, I would stick with it.
Psamathe
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Re: Hilleberg Red vs Yellow Label

Post by Psamathe »

Many thanks. Pack size is an aspect I hadn't thought about but as you say is pretty important (and Hilleberg don't give that on their website. I'll investigate that aspect further.

Thanks
Ian
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Re: Hilleberg Red vs Yellow Label

Post by slowster »

Is not the Allak designed to be better for cooler/cold conditions?

- outer tent walls extend to the ground, reducing ventilation
- ventilation instead is provided at roof level. Presumably that can be adjusted/closed, and is less than the throughflow provided by the Rogen?
- doors are mesh with full fabric behind
- footprint covers the vestible as well, which reduces/eliminates condensation inside on the tent walls as a result of evaporation from damp ground

The poles are the same 9mm diameter, so only provide more strength to the extent that the Allak's third pole is longer like the two main poles, creating a 3 pole dome structure.
Mark S
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Re: Hilleberg Red vs Yellow Label

Post by Mark S »

Psamathe wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 4:14pm Many thanks. Pack size is an aspect I hadn't thought about but as you say is pretty important (and Hilleberg don't give that on their website. I'll investigate that aspect further.

Thanks
Ian
Packed dimensions are available on this page:
https://hilleberg.com/eng/faq/details-specifications/

Rogen, 18 inches long by 6 inches in diameter,
Allak 2, 20 inches long by 7 inches in diameter.
humankeith
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Re: Hilleberg Red vs Yellow Label

Post by humankeith »

Having sold my Rogen and tried a few other tents, I'd suggest never selling it. It's probably the best cycle touring tent I've owned - panniers in one vestibule and cooking and getting out in the other.

In terms of Rogen vs Allak. The main issue you may find, if cycling in mainly moderate and warm conditions, is that the Rogen has loads of ventilation so rarely suffers with condensation. I don't think the same could be said of the Allak, in these conditions.

If I was going on a multi-month tour and was worried about durability of the Rogen, I'd get a footprint, but other than that, what really is the difference? Hillebergs are so overbuilt, which is why they are a bit heavier than more modern/ultralight models from the likes of Tarptent.

Hapy camping!
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simonineaston
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Re: Hilleberg Red vs Yellow Label

Post by simonineaston »

My Anjan (yellow) feels flimsy and fiddly compared with the equivalent Nallo (red). It is however, better to live in when it's sunny & hot and it is lighter, so as with most things to do with tents, it's very much 'horses for courses'... a euphamism for compromises. If I had my time again, I'd probably revert to the Nallo, which for my needs anyway, has an excellent balance of properties and an almost perfect compromise.
S
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Jonathan Hanson
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Re: Hilleberg Red vs Yellow Label

Post by Jonathan Hanson »

First post here, but I have a long association with Hilleberg tents. My suggestion, if you like how the Rogen suits you for cycle touring, is to use a footprint, and order a second set of poles. I'm pretty sure the Rogen, like most Hillebergs, can be double-poled for extra stability in high winds. You'd save weight (and a lot of money) over "upgrading," yet would enhance the performance of your existing tent.
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pjclinch
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Re: Hilleberg Red vs Yellow Label

Post by pjclinch »

I'd forgotten the double poling option, but I wouldn't bother TBH. First off, I've never seen anyone in the UK using it because the standard poles are already tougher than most, and second, the prices are pretty hefty for something that you're unlikely to need.

But if you want a psychological boost to your confidence in the tent it's an option.

Pete.
Often seen riding a bike around Dundee...
Psamathe
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Re: Hilleberg Red vs Yellow Label

Post by Psamathe »

Many thanks all.

My "concern" about strength is more the fabric than the poles. Not about tearing and catastrophic failure but rather when subject to winds it gradually stretching and misshaping (i.e. not just being blown on a windy day but becoming baggy). Rogen gap between inner and fly is not massive so a stretched fly (permanent stretch) would increase wet fly touching inner.

Poles seem to stand-up to things fine. Interestingly mine (2 long poles) seem to have adopted a permanent gentle bend as for the shape of the tent. Does not concern me but sometimes tent can look a bit "skew" when the pole don't all alight with tent shape properly. But it's a smooth bend not at the joints and even across ach pole.

My Rogen has the newer style poles which I assume are better (DAC featherlite NSL 9 mm).

Ian
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pjclinch
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Re: Hilleberg Red vs Yellow Label

Post by pjclinch »

Psamathe wrote: 3 Dec 2022, 6:19pm
My "concern" about strength is more the fabric than the poles. Not about tearing and catastrophic failure but rather when subject to winds it gradually stretching and misshaping
I have the same fabric on my Anaris and it is very fine, but aside from natural sag when it gets a good wetting (which goes when it dries) it really shouldn't lose its shape. Kerlon 1000 has been out in the wild for a decade now and there is nothing much I've seen in reviews and comments and general reputation to suggest it'll deform appreciably.
The Enan originally used an even lighter version which they stopped using because of production problems rather than failures or problems with finished tents.

Nylon does have some mechanical stretch but that's a genuine asset pitching on uneven ground and it shouldn't "set in". Cuben fabric (originally made for high performance sails) is actually thinner and stronger than silnylon (as well as dear enough to make Hilles look cheap), but I've read that the total absence of any stretch can make pitching relatively awkward on bumpier sites.

It might feel fragile but it's bomber kit from a firm with a reputation earned for making bomber kit. As long as you avoid e.g. the Cairngorm Plateau when strong gales are forecast you should be fine. If that weren't the case eBay would be full of slightly saggy Yellow Label Hilles but there are very few of any state. I have a standard search set up for a Rogen, hardly ever goes off.

Pete
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Psamathe
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Re: Hilleberg Red vs Yellow Label

Post by Psamathe »

Many thanks everybody.

I am reassured. As above my main concern was fabric stretching with higher wind over time. Double polling is an interesting idea but at £100 (long poles are around £50 each) I'll probably not pursue at the moment.

What highlighted the question was in part the opportunity for a good discount and in part last summer in NL and NL was windy much of the time (as NL can be).

Although I use it solo, I do like the Rogen. Space when camping for a couple of months is great and now I'm on a bent I can take the seat inside overnight which helps with security and you have a dry seat for next day's ride.

Thanks again.

Ian
Rob D
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Re: Hilleberg Red vs Yellow Label

Post by Rob D »

FWIW, we use a Nallo 2 for backpacking and cycke touring, including 3 months mostly cycling in northern Scandinavia last summer. Absolutely love it.
Sometimes use a Nallo 3 GT if we want more space, but less so now, preferring the smaller weight, packed size and footprint of the N2. We just managed to squeeze it into a tiny space by a huge lake in Finland last summer - and there was no other option. It has a very large porch, plenty of room for all the panniers, bar boxes etc, with plenty of room for cooking.
I have double pole sets for both these and the Akto, nice to have if likely to be very windy, such as Patagonia and Kyrgyzstan.
The N2 is in sand colour, which really blends in well, with the reflective bits taped over.
The groundsheets are incredibly tough. I've only once got a small hole in > 20 years of using Hillys.
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