Where to buy Tongsheng TSDZ2B - 48V 250W

[javatime]

I am considering an E bike conversion and have settled on the above.

I understand the "B" variant has an improved clutch arrangement and also waterproofing of the motor which I would like as I aim to use the bike for light duty - off road routes, also that the 48V drive is better than the 36V version.

I cannot find a supplier on the internet - has anyone else. ?? "Whoosh" bikes advertise 48V 250W , but not in the "B" variant.

[hemo]

The new 'B' variant is likely fixed firmware so one can't carry out any OSF changes.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185572397940 ... R4Dbz--OYQ

I know of three sellers of the older 48v 250w version.
Woosh, RisunUK & Enerprof.
Enerprof sell the motor with updated firmware controller which can't be adjusted.

The only differences in wattage are 250w/10a , 500w/12a & 750w/14a.
All 48v motors & controllers are the same with max 96rpm pedal cadence bar the current set in the firmware.

[javatime]

Many thanks for the background and contacts.

Looks like RisunUK don't do Tongsheng anymore.

On a separate point, I have had a look at various web posts on the OSF, and making changes. It looks quite complicated and as I want to stay with UK legal 250 W, I wonder if there is any advantage to getting a model that can be modified / upgraded ??

[hemo]

Not sure where you are looking , risunuk have them on their webpages.

The motor I got from risunuk 48v /250w was as dull as dishwater in use, it was gutless and there was no differentiating between the assist modes when I tried. Disabling the street mode option allows more wattage in the other assist modes and brings it a live, akin to other torque control mid drive bikes and hub bikes.

The tongshengs generally have poor QC and materials used so one ideally does need to carry out some modifications for motor longevity.
One know failure point is the blue drive gear but this is seen as a fail safe option and easy to replace, better that this simple gear fails then passing the failure to anothe motor part making repair harder. The Blue gear failure is associated with high torque application from a stand still, this may be down to a high gear selection or thottle use.

The axle shaft has been known to snap as their is little latteral support beyond the circlips on each side that prevent the TS shaft from withdrawing, the circlips siting in a groove in said shaft. There is an option to add an additional sealed bearing after the circlip on each side to aid support laterally for the TS shaft.

[javatime]

Thank you hemo

The Whoosh units would appear to actually be 500W, as they are 15A, and Whoosh seem to use some circuitous wording around "250W nominal" and what their supplier tells them .

Thank you for the details of problems you encountered. I am currently a reasonably fit touring cyclist so hope to not overstretch the drive etc

Did you make any firmware changes to improve performance ? That part looks a bit intimidating to me at present.

[stodd]

250 w is the nominal continuous power, which is what the legal 250w limit specifies.
Peak power is typically 2 to 3 times continuous power, hence the 15A controller.

And of course,the amps contribute to power in to the motor; they are mostly 80% efficient at very best and quickly drop to 50% at slower motor speeds (more of an issue with hub motors).

Officially the motor should be stamped with the nominal continuous power; it's very much up to the manufacturers whether they bother, and if they do what they choose as 'nominal'. Apparently the same motor may be stamped 250w for UK/EU approval, and 360w for sale in the US.

[javatime]

The only differences in wattage are 250w/10a , 500w/12a & 750w/14a.
All 48v motors & controllers are the same with max 96rpm pedal cadence bar the current set in the firmware.

Thank you for the reply from stodd - but does that line up with hemos statement I have quoted above ?

Motor operation is not an area that I fully understand (yet) so I appreciate the time that you are taking to explain.

[hemo]

I believe the 48v woosh tsdz is a 12 a controller they offer the option of 12.8 or 15ah battery.
They are rated as 250w motors.

[hemo]

The issues I stated with QC and general poor build quality are not any I have yet encountered but are those that the tsdz2 community at large have come across, most recognise that some remedial work before installation may negate some problems later on.
Though the build /QC is seen as poor the community at large persist with the tsdz2 because it offers a cheap diy option to match and ride like experience of the bosh/yamaha options, also the spares for the tsdz2 are widely available with many how to 's of repair and quite cheap to repair.
Opposed to the BBS the ride feel is different as the BBS is simply more of an on off speed cadence affair.
Another advantage of the tsdz2 is the higher internal gear reduction of 1:42, so unpowered riding is quite effortless compared to the BBS.

[velorog]

I bought my first TSDZ2 250W 36V in May last year. The resulting assist could possibly be described as ‘dull as dishwater’ but I was reasonably pleased. 6 months later I decided to convert a second bike and purchased an identical motor which turned out to be a game changer. It was much more responsive and gave increased levels of assist. I am convinced that Tongsheng have changed the firmware since my first purchase. With the new motor I do not feel the need for the OSF firmware.
Although I ride quite a lot in the National Parks (NYM, Dales, Northern Pennines) I find I can ride most of the day in level 2 assist, only needing level 3 for the steeper climbs, level 4 has not been required. However I do have a 25 inch bottom gear.
So far I have covered about 4,000k without any problems and I feel that as long as you use your gears and do not over-stress the motor they should be reliable. I have no experience of the 48V motor as the latest version of the 36V motor meets all my needs.
I should point out that I am no expert on ebikes, having only tried the Tongsheng, but hope my experiences may help.

[javatime]

Many thanks velorog, interesting that you were disappointed with your first 250 w. 360 volt unit but not the second. That is one reason I am looking at the 48 v version.

Will pm you later as I would like to know where you got the 2nd and better unit from and confirm it was still 36v.

[javatime]

Just re read and see that both units were 36v. Still interested!

[bikes4two]

Regarding the comments up post about Quality Control and Build Quality - I have read many posts about TSDZ2 issues on the Endless Sphere and Pedelec UK forums and I would say this -
> when a problem is reported, it is rare that you get an appreciation of the conditions in which the motor has been used. For example, was it an 18st mountain biker doing jumps and goodness knows what in wet/hot/rough conditions on a 750w motor at max assist, or a leisure cyclist like myself riding on normal roads and mostly in the lower levels of assist?
> The Blue Gear issue is a typical example of this - I've 5,000Km on my motor and I looked at it at the 4,000Km point and there were no signs what ever of wear, and even if it did need replacing, it's a fairly simple DIY job.
> The breaking axle thing - as I understand it, for some frames a longer axle is required and these axles are more prone to failure than the normal ones. If you are still concerned about the potential for a break, you can quite easily add additional bearings for less than £20 and an hour's work. If you are an MTB rider and do jumps out of the saddle, then the axle will obviously be under more stress than other types of riding.
> Overheating - I rode my TSDZ2 extensively during the past summer and I'd fitted temperature strips inside the motor casing. The lowest point on this strip was 77degC and nothing registered at all. If I'd had a 750w motor and been using max power assist, it might have been a different story of course, but that is speculation on my part
EDIT
> And I should like to add the extra drive train wear that is often mentioned as a disadvantage, especially when a comparison is being drawn to hub motors. Drive chain wear is mostly down to the amount of power pushed through it, either by yourself, the motor or a combination of both. Clearly if you ride something like Sir Chris Hoy (and aided by max motor power), then drivetrain wear is going to be greater than if the bike is ridden by someone like me who generally only use Eco mode at around 10-15 mph,- I changed my last chain at 3,800Km as wear was approaching the 0.7% mark.

I use the OSF software which gives me a lot of options over the ride characteristics - flashing the new settings to the motor is a bit complicated for the software novice, but by no means impossible.

in all cases, the forums mentioned above and YT are very informative.