Which illustrates the problem. English has ended up with three different grammatical forms which sound identical and are written almost identically – there is literally not even a letter difference!Mick F wrote: ↑6 Dec 2022, 6:29pm When we were at skool, it was explained very clearly about the difference between ..........
The boys caps, the boy's caps, and the boys' caps.
First tells you nothing.
Second tells you that a single boy has more than one cap.
The third tells you that there is more than one boy, and they have a cap or more each.
English Language - what "Does your head in" ??
Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??
Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??
The last of those isn't right. if there were three boys and two had a cap and one didn't it would be possible and the standard form to refer to the boys' caps. But they wouldn't have "a cap or more each".Mick F wrote: ↑6 Dec 2022, 6:29pm When we were at skool, it was explained very clearly about the difference between ..........
The boys caps, the boy's caps, and the boys' caps.
First tells you nothing.
Second tells you that a single boy has more than one cap.
The third tells you that there is more than one boy, and they have a cap or more each.
Jonathan
Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??
It's lucky we have apostrophes to be able to tell them apartBmblbzzz wrote: ↑6 Dec 2022, 8:43pmWhich illustrates the problem. English has ended up with three different grammatical forms which sound identical and are written almost identically – there is literally not even a letter difference!Mick F wrote: ↑6 Dec 2022, 6:29pm When we were at skool, it was explained very clearly about the difference between ..........
The boys caps, the boy's caps, and the boys' caps.
First tells you nothing.
Second tells you that a single boy has more than one cap.
The third tells you that there is more than one boy, and they have a cap or more each.
Richard M
Cardiff
Cardiff
Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??
In a way, yes. Though in a thousand years' time it will probably have evolved into something else, perhaps more distinct, as we used to have. Or maybe it will evolve towards something simpler, with no distinction between boy and boys, let alone boy's and boys'.richardfm wrote: ↑6 Dec 2022, 10:17pmIt's lucky we have apostrophes to be able to tell them apartBmblbzzz wrote: ↑6 Dec 2022, 8:43pmWhich illustrates the problem. English has ended up with three different grammatical forms which sound identical and are written almost identically – there is literally not even a letter difference!Mick F wrote: ↑6 Dec 2022, 6:29pm When we were at skool, it was explained very clearly about the difference between ..........
The boys caps, the boy's caps, and the boys' caps.
First tells you nothing.
Second tells you that a single boy has more than one cap.
The third tells you that there is more than one boy, and they have a cap or more each.
Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??
Other than that the writer is illiterate.Mick F wrote: ↑6 Dec 2022, 6:29pm When we were at skool, it was explained very clearly about the difference between ..........
The boys caps, the boy's caps, and the boys' caps.
First tells you nothing.
Second tells you that a single boy has more than one cap.
The third tells you that there is more than one boy, and they have a cap or more each.
Have we got time for another cuppa?
Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??
Yes, I can't see how that would be used in common parlance and with standard punctuation.Audax67 wrote: ↑8 Dec 2022, 8:19amOther than that the writer is illiterate.Mick F wrote: ↑6 Dec 2022, 6:29pm When we were at skool, it was explained very clearly about the difference between ..........
The boys caps, the boy's caps, and the boys' caps.
First tells you nothing.
Second tells you that a single boy has more than one cap.
The third tells you that there is more than one boy, and they have a cap or more each.
What was it intended to mean?
Jonathan
Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??
The word Periscope, which has now been borrowed into another silly app name
Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??
"Go extinct" grates with me. The beeb likes it. But a lot of the beeb grates with me these days.
Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??
Hmm. Interesting ...
"Go ... " works OK with some adjectives: "he's gone quiet".
Why does it sound wrong with extinct? I wonder if it's because extinction is generally a very slow process; or because it's permanaent (whereas "quiet" usually wouldn't be)??
Does Mr Attenborough use this variant?!?
Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??
Become extinct.
In danger of being extinct.
Things can't "go" extinct.
In danger of being extinct.
Things can't "go" extinct.
Mick F. Cornwall
-
- Posts: 36778
- Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm
Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??
So much cheaper than buying Fowler.
-
- Posts: 752
- Joined: 24 Feb 2019, 5:37pm
Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??
The difference is that to go quiet is something you actively do.mattheus wrote: ↑21 Dec 2022, 8:37amHmm. Interesting ...
"Go ... " works OK with some adjectives: "he's gone quiet".
Why does it sound wrong with extinct? I wonder if it's because extinction is generally a very slow process; or because it's permanaent (whereas "quiet" usually wouldn't be)??
Does Mr Attenborough use this variant?!?
To become extinct is something that happens to you (or rather, to your species).
Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??
Thanks for stating a reason.DaveReading wrote: ↑21 Dec 2022, 9:59am ...
The difference is that to go quiet is something you actively do.
To become extinct is something that happens to you (or rather, to your species).
Jonathan
-
- Posts: 36778
- Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm
Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??
Thinking back - with some difficulty - to "O" Level English, I think that there are some verbs which can be qualified by an adjective (or an adjectival phrase) rather than an adverb. There must be a name for this which I've forgotten or never learnt.
I believe it's only our old friend on this thread - usage - that determines what goes with what. I cannot remember anything which says that only active usages are acceptable.
I believe it's only our old friend on this thread - usage - that determines what goes with what. I cannot remember anything which says that only active usages are acceptable.
Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??
I can't think of how adjectives can qualify verbs in Standard English.thirdcrank wrote: ↑21 Dec 2022, 11:48am Thinking back - with some difficulty - to "O" Level English, I think that there are some verbs which can be qualified by an adjective (or an adjectival phrase) rather than an adverb. There must be a name for this which I've forgotten or never learnt.
...
Was that about usages such as:
The bike looks good.
?
Thanks
Jonathan