Weight training

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Cugel
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Weight training

Post by Cugel »

Weight training is often dismissed as an artificial and unnecessary form of exercise for narcissists, with cyclists often being leery of the whole idea under the assumption that riding the bike is often very demanding so must be enough. However .....

Weight training in a modern society like ours is essentially taking the place of many strength-movements that we evolved and would have used for tens of thousands of years as hunter-gatherers; or even as farmers of the more primitive kinds. Today, cars, sofas, lifts and various other machines have turned many into feeblings hardly able to tear open their bag of crisps!

Here's a good Groanydad article that goes into some detail about the benefits of weight training. Your comments would be interesting and therefore very welcome. Yes, they would. :-)

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... at-any-age

Cugel Schwarzenegger
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
Bsteel
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Re: Weight training

Post by Bsteel »

Cugel wrote: 8 Dec 2022, 11:47am Here's a good Groanydad article that goes into some detail about the benefits of weight training. Your comments would be interesting and therefore very welcome. Yes, they would. :-)

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... at-any-age

Cugel Schwarzenegger
I think you could also have posted that article to the end of the "Witnessing the end of the NHS" thread in reply to the the discussion of an aging population needing to stay healthy. viewtopic.php?p=1741882#p1741882
Given how falls contribute, both directly and indirectly, to to the mortality figures and that maintainance of strength and balance can help mitigate the possibility of falls to some degree. Then some sort of strength regime seems almost obligatory. Even if that is just to try to reduce the muscle loss from sarcopenia which can start around age 30 and increases as we age.
mattheus
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Re: Weight training

Post by mattheus »

Cugel wrote: 8 Dec 2022, 11:47am Weight training in a modern society like ours is essentially taking the place of many strength-movements that we evolved and would have used for tens of thousands of years as hunter-gatherers;
In many parts of the world - and for many centuries - the ideal physique was long-distance runner i.e. that was how we hunted prey that could comfortably outrun man (and his spears) over short distances.

(and they never needed to remove a rusted-in-place pedal or bottom-bracket!)

Probably a digression, sorry ...
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Cugel
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Re: Weight training

Post by Cugel »

mattheus wrote: 8 Dec 2022, 2:32pm
Cugel wrote: 8 Dec 2022, 11:47am Weight training in a modern society like ours is essentially taking the place of many strength-movements that we evolved and would have used for tens of thousands of years as hunter-gatherers;
In many parts of the world - and for many centuries - the ideal physique was long-distance runner i.e. that was how we hunted prey that could comfortably outrun man (and his spears) over short distances.

(and they never needed to remove a rusted-in-place pedal or bottom-bracket!)

Probably a digression, sorry ...
Well, I wouldn't disparage the runners, despite finding the activity somewhat tedious myself, not to mention cruel to me old joints. After all, it was necessary to catch the dinner in them olden days. However, some of the dinners were big and 'ornery so probably needed strengths of different kinds, to leap up a tree outa the way of the horns & teef or to wrastle the thing to the ground before committing a murderous act upon it.

And then you had to carry it back to Mrs Ugg, 7 miles back down the trail.

**************
Just recently the daughter brought news of her friend, with whom I've ridden many a fine bike ride, who was suddenly revealed to have osteoporosis via a bad ankle snap whilst sliding down a playground slide with a grandbairn. Just a small blow to the ankle from the lip of the slide bottom and there she was in hospital having her ankle bones pinned back together and learning she had the bone weakness.

This lady has done serious triathlons, so lots of swimming, running and cycling in practice for them. The running is reputed to help a bit in warding off osteoporosis but obviously not that much.

Weight training is now on her agenda - although it's never clear if it can push back osteoporosis or whether it can only help slow it before it gets so bad that you snap easily. No doubt someone here can give us the low-down. :-)

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
Bsteel
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Re: Weight training

Post by Bsteel »

Cugel wrote: 8 Dec 2022, 11:47am
Weight training is now on her agenda - although it's never clear if it can push back osteoporosis or whether it can only help slow it before it gets so bad that you snap easily. No doubt someone here can give us the low-down. :-)

Cugel
I look forward to reading the more detailed technical replies, but I would assume that the impact or stress on the bone is the trigger for the bone to build or repair itself. But for that to happen the right nutrient and hormone building blocks also need to be available.
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pjclinch
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Re: Weight training

Post by pjclinch »

My impression (and I've not done any proper analysis) is that consensus is building that weight training, particularly as one gets older, is a Good Thing. And it was that feeling that had me reading that Graun article yesterday and book-marking it.

There is something of an association of gym work with body building rather than what one might think of as basic health maintenance. There's also an association with stationary bikes and treadmills which is something that keeps me away from them. Some basic weight work which doesn't require a subscription is almost certainly an avenue worth some time.

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Dingdong
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Re: Weight training

Post by Dingdong »

I've been doing free weights as part of my winter (October-March) regime. I'm usually off the bike December and January, and don't really start riding seriously again till end January. For why? I hate the weather and the prospect of a fall on ice, and I'm not keen on trashing a bike. The salt on the roads round these here parts is ferocious!

I don't lift heavy weights in any upper body or back exercises, but I do use quite heavy weights on the squat bar. In winter that can go from 100kg-180kg, I used to train for mass for rugby and I've pretty much kept it up except for when the kids were small, for 40 years.

I started weight training when I was in the forces, and there's been an incredible shift in style and nutrition since then. What benefits does it give?

Essentially core strength. So you're protecting your spine in a cage of muscles, I rarely get problems with my back because of it. Also improved mobility, leg strength and a general resistance to injury. The year I did not train, I got all sorts it physical injuries, and it also helps regulate weight. Lean muscle mass needs twice as many calories as fat to maintain itself, so your metabolism is always working harder. I find it very easy to keep a static a weight of around 83kg when training, and without it, I can go up to 90kg quite easily over a winter.

As we age bone density obviously decreases, and weight training can certainly slow that down. When I went for my health mot I got an 'age score ' 9 years younger than my actual age. Training over many years has clearly had an impact.
Bsteel
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Re: Weight training

Post by Bsteel »

Given how long it takes to increase muscle as we age but how quickly an enforced period of inactivity can reduce it, then anything which adds some muscle reserves would seem to be a good thing. Then other way to think about it is to ask how much muscle would I need in future to maintain the activity level I desire ?
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Audax67
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Re: Weight training

Post by Audax67 »

Cugel wrote: 8 Dec 2022, 11:47am Weight training is often dismissed as an artificial and unnecessary form of exercise for narcissists, with cyclists often being leery of the whole idea under the assumption that riding the bike is often very demanding so must be enough. However .....

Weight training in a modern society like ours is essentially taking the place of many strength-movements that we evolved and would have used for tens of thousands of years as hunter-gatherers; or even as farmers of the more primitive kinds. Today, cars, sofas, lifts and various other machines have turned many into feeblings hardly able to tear open their bag of crisps!

Here's a good Groanydad article that goes into some detail about the benefits of weight training. Your comments would be interesting and therefore very welcome. Yes, they would. :-)

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... at-any-age

Cugel Schwarzenegger
Dear oh lor'. MrsA67 read that vile article and is now on at yrs trly to start pumping. Never mind that we have wood-burners with the wood stacked in the barn and trundled over to the house once a week, and that every day we need to carry half-a-dozen baskets up from the cellar. Never mind that I've averaged >150 km/wk this year. No, since I'm not heaving dumbells around I'm risking Alzheimer's and a host of other interesting conditions.

Bloody Graun (motto: forever holier than thou and who needs proof-readers anyway?)
Have we got time for another cuppa?
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Cugel
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Re: Weight training

Post by Cugel »

Audax67 wrote: 9 Dec 2022, 11:01am
Cugel wrote: 8 Dec 2022, 11:47am Weight training is often dismissed as an artificial and unnecessary form of exercise for narcissists, with cyclists often being leery of the whole idea under the assumption that riding the bike is often very demanding so must be enough. However .....

Weight training in a modern society like ours is essentially taking the place of many strength-movements that we evolved and would have used for tens of thousands of years as hunter-gatherers; or even as farmers of the more primitive kinds. Today, cars, sofas, lifts and various other machines have turned many into feeblings hardly able to tear open their bag of crisps!

Here's a good Groanydad article that goes into some detail about the benefits of weight training. Your comments would be interesting and therefore very welcome. Yes, they would. :-)

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... at-any-age

Cugel Schwarzenegger
Dear oh lor'. MrsA67 read that vile article and is now on at yrs trly to start pumping. Never mind that we have wood-burners with the wood stacked in the barn and trundled over to the house once a week, and that every day we need to carry half-a-dozen baskets up from the cellar. Never mind that I've averaged >150 km/wk this year. No, since I'm not heaving dumbells around I'm risking Alzheimer's and a host of other interesting conditions.

Bloody Graun (motto: forever holier than thou and who needs proof-readers anyway?)
Perhaps that wood humpin' and 150k per week has not honed your thrusting muscles to the degree that Mrs 67 would prefer? I can only suggest that you either put 2 X 10kg dumbbells in your saddle bag or 3 in the wood basket.

I do have a list of "reasons I can't/shouldn't go to the gym today" but that will cost you at least twenty five of the pound notes for a copy.

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
Stevek76
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Re: Weight training

Post by Stevek76 »

For the rowdier side of cycling then rows, deadlifts and the like can make any sort of wheelie/manual/jump/bunny hop as well as just general bike handling considerably easier.

In general because we can push ourselves to greater loads with dedicated weight training, that then makes the smaller loads much more trivial to undertake and can also make us rather more resistant to damage from lousy techniques when dealing with everyday loads.
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ANTONISH
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Re: Weight training

Post by ANTONISH »

This was part of the discussion "loss of muscle function with age"
I'm one of those who uses a gym and lifts weights.
I don't lift very heavy weights and the idea is to maintain muscle mass and improve strength.

I think it probably helps with balance and if you happen to fall you will have the strength to get yourself upright again - numbers of older people can't.
Dingdong
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Re: Weight training

Post by Dingdong »

If anyone is thinking of starting, rather than take the plunge in a full gym membership, a few kettle bells and a static bar with say 40kg on it is a good home introduction.
Dingdong
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Re: Weight training

Post by Dingdong »

A 4kg kettle bell is a good place to start. There are tons of tutorials on YouTube
David2504
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Re: Weight training

Post by David2504 »

Problem with weight training is it’s boring and wastes energy that could be expended doing more interesting things. I occasionally dabble but never stick to a regime for that reason. Of course there’s always old fashioned body weight exercises such as press ups, squats, lunges, tricep dips, sit ups of many variety, planks and bridges.
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