Replacing fully concealed cables

[Stradageek]

I take a tandem length inner cable, thread it through a replacement length of outer then through the installed (concealed) outer until the lengths of outer cable butt together. Pull on the tandem length of inner to drag the old outer out and the new outer in. Job done

[rjb]

Yes that's how I do it on my Kingpin. Feed a new outer length in at one end feed an inner in and feed it through the old outer at the hinge then pull the inner to butt the 2 outers and keep pulling to pull the old outer out and the new outer in. Simples.

rareposter

Was way ahead of its time, there was nothing else like that in the 1980's!

No it wasn't, copied the idea from my 1976 Dawes Kingpin, see my earlier post.

[AndyK]

I have worked on a fully internally-routed bike. It was pretty nerve-wracking because it was a brand new bike! The owner wanted to swap to a shorter stem and apparently I was "the only person I'd trust it with" (I'm a sucker for flattery). It was hydraulic bakes with Di2 gears

We're talking routing inside the handlebar and stem here, not just inside the frame. The cable/wire and hydraulic hose come out of the STI lever and immediately disappear into a hole in the handlebar, on the inside of the bend, hidden under the bar tape. They feed through to another hole in the back of the central section of the handlebars, through the stem and down into the frame via fancy special spacers. Lots of custom-designed components.

Once you're into the frame it's much like any other internally-routed bike (i.e. fiddly and annoying to various degrees). Arguably slightly easier.

The key issue is, did the installer leave extra length in the wires and hoses to allow for easy maintenance access? On the bike I worked on, there was a bit of spare length in the Di2 wire and it was easy to unplug then reconnect later. (A conventional gear inner wire would have to be removed and replaced, perhaps not too awful as I expect there would probably be a continuous outer in place.)

The brake hoses had to be disconnected and reconnected when I'd finished. Fortunately, as they were Shimano brakes I was able to do this without bleeding them. However as I had to trim them shorter to attach new barbs and olives, it was just as well I was swapping from a longer stem to a shorter one as that gave me surplus length to work with. There wasn't much slack in the hoses so it might have been tricky going the other way.

Bit of a nightmare, basically. To pack for flight you'd be OK if there was plenty of spare length in the cable/wire/hose inside the frame so that you could leave them all connected while strapping the handlebars to the frame.

Oh, re. cables knocking inside the frame: you can get foam sleeves that encase the cable or the hose. No good if you're feeding the cable through tiny gear-cable-sized holes in the frame, but useful if you can get access through a larger aperture. They're a bit like pipe lagging but much thinner.

[NickJP]

Chris King now make a $US375 headset that has apertures in the top race that mate with an Enve stem and bars for the fashion followers who want all this fully concealed stuff: https://chrisking.com/products/aeroset-3.

[Jupestar]

I have worked on a fully internally-routed bike.

AndyK, did the hose at any point go into the steerer tube, or did it go around it? Looks like those headsets spacers route the hose outside the bearing and outside the steerer tube?

Also where did you disconnect the hoses? Did you do it at the lever/caliper, or was there a join the the cable In a convenient position for disconnection?

I doubt I'll ever push the button, as I know rationally it's only the asthetics with draw me in, but they do look great and I'm sure the 0.01watts would be useful on my commute!!

[Tiberius]

AndyK - Interesting post, great info' - Many thanks.

[AndyK]

I have worked on a fully internally-routed bike.

AndyK, did the hose at any point go into the steerer tube, or did it go around it? Looks like those headsets spacers route the hose outside the bearing and outside the steerer tube?

Also where did you disconnect the hoses? Did you do it at the lever/caliper, or was there a join the the cable In a convenient position for disconnection?

I doubt I'll ever push the button, as I know rationally it's only the asthetics with draw me in, but they do look great and I'm sure the 0.01watts would be useful on my commute!!

TBH I can't remember all the details as it was a year or two ago. I think front brake hose feeds up inside the fork then out through a hole at the front of the steerer tube. Rear brake hose comes up the outside of the steerer tube. I disconnected at the levers: no intermediate junction. The installation instructions assume you'll connect up at the caliper, but I was removing and reinstalling an existing setup and it's harder to do the no-bleed trick at the caliper end.
This diagram may help. Or it may not.

Fortunately for me, Trek provide detailed installation manuals. This isn't the exact model/year I was working on but it's similar:
https://retailerassetsprd.blob.core.win ... UlT%2Fo%3D

It's all cleverer than a very clever thing and involves lots of holes in components that really shouldn't have holes in them. I had to be very methodical and label stuff as I went along.

[Jupestar]

Thanks AndyK, that's sort of what I was thinking similar to a Gyro on a BMX or jump bike... But it's not coming through the headset/top cap. ..so it must either be coming out a hole in the steerer tube and into the stem, or on the outside of the steerer. I guess both would be theoretically possible, but could restrict turning circle. ..although i'm sure it all worked out to the cm. (Definately no bar spins though! )

[AndyK]

Thanks AndyK, that's sort of what I was thinking similar to a Gyro on a BMX or jump bike... But it's not coming through the headset/top cap. ..so it must either be coming out a hole in the steerer tube and into the stem, or on the outside of the steerer. I guess both would be theoretically possible, but could restrict turning circle. ..although i'm sure it all worked out to the cm. (Definately no bar spins though! )

Yeah, outside the steerer and up through gaps in the special spacers into a hole in the stem, as far as I remember. (See how many times the words "gap" and "hole" come up? It's Just Not Right.) I'm pretty sure Trek's designers did not consider bar spins when creating the Madone - a shocking oversight.

[mig]

what sort of condition are these cables in when they are removed? does the concealment noticeably arrest corrosion?

i had a steel frame built in 1997 that the builder included the cable run to the rear caliper inside the top tube. two small 'housings' at each end and i'm pretty sure he said they had small rubber grommets inside to resist moisture ingress. it's still the same cable (used as a TT bike for much of its time.) i wonder what it is like in there!

[PT1029]

Thread resurection. Another intreguing one. On a Koga Myata tourer where you be wanting easy on the road maintenance. The rear brake cable goes in the top of the down tube, a tight bend through the BB shell and then exits part way up the seat tube.

Apologies for photo orientation.

[gregoryoftours]

I've seen some nifty internal routing, an ht2 crank spindle was doing double duty as the internal bb cable guide, gear cable was steadily sawing it in two!

[NickJP]

A while ago I read this article: https://www.bikeradar.com/features/tech ... le-routing. The totally hidden cable seem to be almost universally reviled by the mechanics who have to work on them.

[rareposter]

A while ago I read this article: https://www.bikeradar.com/features/tech ... le-routing. The totally hidden cable seem to be almost universally reviled by the mechanics who have to work on them.

Yes, there was a thread based on that bikeradar article when it came out:
viewtopic.php?t=158955

[cyclop]

My most reliable "fit and forget" cable setup on my fleet is a continuous outer cable with no breaks,secured with dedicated fittings on the outside of frame members on a full suspn. off roader,the complete opposite of your setup .Running cables through holes in a frame doesn,t strike me as a great idea .You,ve got got to seal entry/exit points I,m assuming?Maybe not,so that water can escape ? Someone will know.No use for you at all I,m afraid.....merely an observation .