Law on restricted ebikes

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc. that are legal in the UK
stodd
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by stodd »

Cugel wrote: 15 Nov 2022, 5:08pm not made for both but which are rather footpaths to which cyclists have been foolishly given access so that some bureaucrat can claim that they've provided off-road cycling facilities.
More common here is to provide cycle paths by painting pictures of squashed bicycles in the gutter of a road.
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Cugel
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by Cugel »

stodd wrote: 16 Nov 2022, 9:02am
Cugel wrote: 15 Nov 2022, 5:08pm not made for both but which are rather footpaths to which cyclists have been foolishly given access so that some bureaucrat can claim that they've provided off-road cycling facilities.
More common here is to provide cycle paths by painting pictures of squashed bicycles in the gutter of a road.
It's a bit orthogonal but what are such threads for but to allow a wander here, there and everywhere? White line guttering of the cyclist ......

I recall when these so-called cycling lanes were first established by painting a white line parallel to the gutter and putting a bicycle symbol therein. It was the arrangement in Lancaster one-way system but came with no other changes to the road than the white paint. Essentially it invited cyclists to ride in the detritus-stewn gutters, swinging out on to the road when encountering a parked van, stationary bus, lady with a pushchair, piles of cardboard boxes awaiting collection, a pavement projection, etc.. Meanwhile, the motorists were invited to close pass the guttered cyclists or to run over them if they dared to swing out to avoid one of the aforementioned obstacles.

Personally I ignored the gutterstripes and went down the road as I've always done, a metre from the kerb, or more when circumstances suggested owning the lane. I was beeped by one or two car hooligans but 99.9% of drivers didn't seem to mind.

The white-lined gutter areas were useful for undertaking in stationary traffic, sometimes, But the blockages usually meant one got 50 yards before having to stop. In stationary traffic, I road down the middle of the road instead, on the white line separating the two parallel streams of traffic going along the one-way. A wary eye for lane-swappers was always necessary but such swaps were usually not possible for car drivers anyway, as they were stopped nose-to-tail. Pedestrians crossing the road were also to be looked for; and given priority along with a friendly halloo. :-)

**********
As with so many cunning plans made in the offices of bureaucrats by folk unfamiliar with what they're supposedly designing for, these arrangements offer no significant advantage whilst introducing a raft of significant and deleterious unintended consequences. But look at it from the "planners" point of view. If cycle lanes are demanded but you can't make proper ones without dismantling whole roads, pavements and buildings, what are they to do? Produce an ISO (Infrastructure Shaped Object).

Cugel, a road user not a guttersnipe. Oh yes I am/am not!
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
Chuntydody
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Joined: 17 Nov 2022, 11:03am

Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by Chuntydody »

As a new forum member and having owned an ebike for around 10 months now, I thought I'd throw in my opinions.

When I got my ebike I did think that the 15.5mph limit would be a problem for me, and so even before taking delivery I was looking online at options to bypass it. In practice it hasn't really been a problem for me, but of course my bike is a sit-up-and-beg style, so definitely not built for speed!. With something more sporty, I may feel different.

That isn't to say there haven't been times where I'd have welcomed an extra 5-10mph of assistance, but that is really only on of the many routes I go on. Coming out of a quiet country road, turning left on to a busy single carriageway A road, going about 500 meters along it before turning off to the right. I find it quite nerve-racking and like to be on that road for the minimum amount of time!.

But for by far the majority of the time, the limit doesn't inconvenience me. I deliberately bought a bike with a bigger than average battery because I wanted to do longer runs and more specifically, to cycle to my parents just under 30 miles away. If I am driving there at a normal pace and not exceeding the speed limit, it takes around 45 minutes. The route I take on my ebike is completely different, it is shorter in distance but uses mainly very rural single track roads (so would take longer in the car), but it takes me around 1 hour and 40 minutes. I think that is pretty decent bearing in mind it is a pretty hilly overall with a couple of absolute stinkers!. Years and years ago I do remember cycling down once on my old flat bar hybrid and I'm near certain it took more than 2 hours.
arnsider
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Location: Carnforth, Lancashire

Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by arnsider »

I am a bit confused by some of the offerings here.
Cycles, either electrically assisted or pedal cycles aren't limited to 15.5 mph. but the legal limit where ever they are.
The speed at which an electric motor propels a cycle cuts out when the cycle reaches 15.5 mph.
Surely that is ample.
These throttle bikes aren't really cycles, but electric bikes and as such ought really to be classed differently.
fivebikes
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Location: West Yorks

Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by fivebikes »

Doesn’t matter what the law says….if it’s generally unenforceable.
The police, trading standards etc have not got the resources to cope. I’m happy to comply and it’s not difficult to, if you choose.
On the other hand…..last night a local lad purred up my steep road on a e-moped, for want of a better description. No helmet, lights on the moped and certainly not pedalling. Worse still, he was slipstreaming a white van, so close as to be invisible to the driver.
I’ve seen him so often in the past year that I recognise him .
I am concerned for his health and well-being plus if he meets a sticky end it will be another negative e-bike story (battery pun unintended).
We have a couple of speed limited e-bike conversions and they do the job….a bit of help on steep hills and the potential (there I go again) to add a bit more to a ride so the last few miles aren’t a struggle.
Most legal e-bike riders will be the same I reckon. Happy with the power cut off, okay with the battery range, not so impressed by the added weight but hey ho.
People mostly obey laws, e-bikes will mostly comply. Obviously some bikes and users disregard theses niceties, but that’s life.
djnotts
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Location: Nottingham

Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by djnotts »

Chris Jeggo wrote: 14 Nov 2022, 11:25am
Cugel wrote: 14 Nov 2022, 9:31am ... and many cyclists can go about for hours at a time at 20 - 25mph. ...
Hmm, yes, but my personal observation is that such cyclists nearly always choose to do soon on carriageways rather than footpaths or footways.
Surely only the full-on road club folk who can/do achieve such a speed? And even they couldn't do so, on the same bikes, on e.g. tow paths and trails. At my usual 10-12 mph my peer (old) group on "legal" electrics often pass me on tarmac, they don't off road!
The clearly out-with legality, pretty much off-road scramblers, are a different matter, 30 mph at the twist of a throttle!
And the worst thing is that ..... I WANT ONE!
I can see no good argument for over 250W/15 mph. Arbitrary of course but limits always are.
Jdsk
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by Jdsk »

"Amsterdam calls for crackdown on menace of souped-up e-bikes":
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... us-streets

Jonathan
djnotts
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by djnotts »

"....cycling experts warn that nations rapidly adopting them, such as the UK, will soon face the same issues."

PhD in the b*&^#*@# obvious to the experts.
irc
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by irc »

I have test ridden a legal E-bike which cut out about 19mph. In the USA. Feels like a better number to me. Fast enough to offer a significant benefit to bike commuters. Fast enough to keep up with urban traffic in 20mph zones.

Wide availability of 19mph E-bikes might reduce the attraction of illegal bikes doing higher speeds.
djnotts
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by djnotts »

irc wrote: 14 Jan 2023, 8:40pm
Wide availability of 19mph E-bikes might reduce the attraction of illegal bikes doing higher speeds.
As an ex-biker (in my 20s-30s and again in 50s) I really don't think it works like that!
Brik
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by Brik »

Dingdong wrote: 14 Nov 2022, 8:14am I think it's high time this law was re-assesed. Personally I'd either remove the speed limit altogether, or place it somewhere more sensible between 18-25mph.

What do others think?
Cars are limited to 70 mph maximum yet almost every car available in the UK can exceed this limit.
Why are car drivers trusted not to break the law but not cyclists not?

My own car has a 4.3 litre v8 but, obviously, I don't often drive to the shops at 155 mph.
NickWi
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by NickWi »

Brik wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 7:43pm Why are car drivers trusted not to break the law but not cyclists not?
Cars drivers need to take a test and they have to have a licence (for what it's worth) but most of all, cars can't be driven by children.
stodd
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by stodd »

Brik wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 7:43pm Why are car drivers trusted not to break the law but not cyclists not?
Also, cars have number plates so it's much easier to have semi-automated speed traps and to identify the lawbreakers.
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Cugel
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by Cugel »

NickWi wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 10:33pm
Brik wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 7:43pm Why are car drivers trusted not to break the law but not cyclists not?
Cars drivers need to take a test and they have to have a licence (for what it's worth) but most of all, cars can't be driven by children.
Hmmmm. Whilst the bald facts of your statement seem true there may be a problem with the definitions contained therein.

Passing the driving test doesn't seem to prevent many motorists from driving in a loony, incompetent or deliberately dangerous manner. One might suggest that the design and marketing of cars encourages these traits.

Is that the case for e-bikes that could be allowed to aid up to 19mph rather than 15.5mph? Perhaps. But less likely than with the thrusting tin-merkins of vast power, one feels. After all, cyclists feel quite vulnerable at speed, much more so than just about every car driver I've ever been a passenger with.

Cars can't be driven by children, you say. However they can be driven by adults-who-aren't but have remained with an emotional age of about 13 (very immature but with plenty of volatile hormones).

*********
Non-powered cyclists can go at speeds at up to 50mph on a bike. How many apply good sense and care before they do so, down the long fast hills? Virtually all of them. It feels unsafe to do 50mph on a bike. (or even 30mph, in many circumstances). E-bikes that could be powered at 19mph can also be pedalled without power at faster speeds. I know this because I often do so. It doesn't make me any more careless to have some assistance at lower speeds, whether that speed is the current 15.5mph or 40mph.

What should be limited isn't assisted top speed but maximum available power. I'd limit e-bikes to never giving more than 250 watts combined power from leg & motor. That gives less fit cyclists the ability to ride like more fit cyclists - but no more.

I'd do the same with cars - power limited so no car could ever get above around 70mph in practice. Why do motorists need to go from 0-60 in 7 seconds, 11 seconds or even 30 seconds? Only 'cos that's what they're used to and like. There's no safe and sensible reason, despite the cries that, "I accelerate out of trouble". (Into it, more like).

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
djnotts
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by djnotts »

Cugel:
"I'd do the same with cars - power limited so no car could ever get above around 70mph in practice. Why do motorists need to go from 0-60 in 7 seconds, 11 seconds or even 30 seconds? Only 'cos that's what they're used to and like. There's no safe and sensible reason, despite the cries that, "I accelerate out of trouble". (Into it, more like)."

+1. But the max speed limit should be at least 10mph less than max achievable speed. Especially on a m'cycle, acceleration IS one way out of trouble. As the police m'cycle training manual used to advise, always have at least 10 in hand, giving a choice between decreasing or increasing speed in order to minimise time in a vulnerable position.
Vehicles simply should not be capable of speeds double the max limit on the roads.
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