Help me find….

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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peetee
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Help me find….

Post by peetee »

Some friends have asked me to help construct a bike with a particular spec. It needs to be powered with an electric rear hub and have luggage capacity, disc brakes and front suspension. Their funds are limited and realistically they will be needing used parts.
I am very experienced in building quality conventional pedal cycles but electric bikes is a whole new kettle of piranhas.
To start the ball rolling I am hoping to get hold of a steel MTB frame (so the rear can be more easily cold-set to 145mm axle) with disc brake fittings and dedicated luggage mounts. Clearly the difficult inclusion is steel, as opposed to aluminium so can anyone suggest a used frame I can focus on to help search the ads? I am going to stick to around £150 but will look at more if it’s a whole bike that would get me most of the way there with the inclusion of an electric conversion.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
Tinkerbell
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Joined: 6 Oct 2022, 1:38pm

Re: Help me find….

Post by Tinkerbell »

The Dawes Diamond MTB had a steel frame and forks (fixed, not suspension), unfortunately the Diamond name has been re-used for a folding bike.

Raleigh did a number of steel MTBs in the 90s - names like Amazon, Casis, Alaska, Cobra etc
slowster
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Re: Help me find….

Post by slowster »

I think ideally you need to look for/buy a frame already fitted with a suspension fork. For a while now most new MTBs have been designed for tapered fork steerers, and so there are now very few aftermarket suspension forks with straight steerers. If you buy a frame or a rigid MTB with a straight head tube, it night not be easy to find a suitable suspension fork for it separately, including a suitable used fork in reasonable condition and at a resonable price.

If you buy a rigid MTB, then I think you would need to buy one that is a suspension corrected design frame and rigid fork, such as the pre-2016 Surly Ogre, and then you would need a suspension fork with the appropriate amount of travel, i.e. the suspension corrected Ogre was designed to take an 80mm suspension fork.

I think an On One 'Inbred' is the sort of low cost steel bike/frame that you might more easily find for sale second hand with a suspension fork fitted. Inbreds were made in 26" then 29" wheel versions, and in both singlespeed track end, sliding dropout and vertical dropout versions, and Planet X sold complete bikes in both rigid and suspension versions. NB Inbreds typically have a wishbone seatstay, which makes fitting a rear mudguard awkward and also limits tyre/mudguard clearance (although I suspect if mudguards were fitted then non-knobbly tyres like Big Apples would be used, which should have enough clearance).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from ... d&_sacat=0

If 'luggage capacity' means full size rear panniers, I think most 26" wheeled MTBs will have chainstays that are so short that heel clearance is likely to be an issue for most people. I suspect that the 26" wheel Surly Troll is an exception, and was designed with longer chainstays. Front panniers fitted on the rear of a 26" wheeled MTB would probably be OK for people with small to medium sized feet. Neverthless, I think a 29er MTB would be the better option.

That all said, I would question the choice of a suspension fork if luggage capacity = rear rack and panniers. IMO, if a suspension fork is genuinely needed, then the nature of the riding is likely to be wholly unsuitable for panniers (as opposed to soft bikepacking type bags). If someone wants to use an MTB with loaded panniers, I think the focus should be on wider tyres, e.g. a 29er with 2.4" or wider tyres.

There have been a few rigid 29er bikes/frames which might suit, e.g. clearance for wider tyres up to 2.8" or more (which also likely means good mudguard clearance), and long stable wheelbases. For example see 531colin's Genesis Longitude (with mid-motor) and reohn2's Longitude - viewtopic.php?p=1385012#p1385012.
peetee
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Re: Help me find….

Post by peetee »

Completely agree with you about front suspension. Apart from anything you mentioned there is the issue of loading up the rear of a rear-motorised bike with upright rider and panniers. Sounds like a recipe for over-light and wandering steering to me. But that’s what the customer wants and that’s where I must start.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
Jupestar
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Re: Help me find….

Post by Jupestar »

Charge Cooker or Duster could fit the bill. As per Slowster FS will be an issue. With a tapered head tube.

Chain reaction do have a straight steerer and QR and 29er suspension fork for £100ish. It's pretty basic. I've been tempted to buy one but not pushed the button. Its a suntour, some of the Cookers where spec'd originally with this. Utimately I think I'll end up moving on to the most recent standard thru axle / tapered etc.

Duster I think is 26er. Cooker are 27.5 /29er.

GT also did a nice steel MTB frame which had Discs. But I can't remember (or find it now). It will come to me.

Apart from the ones mentioned, Octane one did some for a while, and Dialled bikes (possibly only 26in though).

I've stuck mid drive on a Charge mixer, it was pretty good. Rode both about 30 miles before giving the motor back to the owner. I was going to test it on a Charge Cooker, which I reckon would have been better, but couldn't be faffed with the spannering in the end.. I might consider it one day.

As you have identified its going to be rear heavy... Most certainly you going to need to get some weight on the front.
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531colin
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Re: Help me find….

Post by 531colin »

peetee wrote: 15 Jan 2023, 1:49pm Some friends have asked me to help construct a bike with a particular spec. It needs to be powered with an electric rear hub and have luggage capacity, disc brakes and front suspension. Their funds are limited and realistically they will be needing used parts.
I am very experienced in building quality conventional pedal cycles but electric bikes is a whole new kettle of piranhas.
To start the ball rolling I am hoping to get hold of a steel MTB frame (so the rear can be more easily cold-set to 145mm axle) with disc brake fittings and dedicated luggage mounts. Clearly the difficult inclusion is steel, as opposed to aluminium so can anyone suggest a used frame I can focus on to help search the ads? I am going to stick to around £150 but will look at more if it’s a whole bike that would get me most of the way there with the inclusion of an electric conversion.
Is this necessary?

Are you really taking this on?
Buy the whole thing new from an outfit with one of the best reputations around.....£1500....https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?gran-camino

At least buy your conversion kit new from them, and get backup.
peetee
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Location: Upon a lumpy, scarred granite massif.

Re: Help me find….

Post by peetee »

They already have the wheel, and electrics and as they are friends I am looking into it for them.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
slowster
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Re: Help me find….

Post by slowster »

531colin wrote: 16 Jan 2023, 3:19pm
peetee wrote: 15 Jan 2023, 1:49pm Some friends have asked me to help construct a bike with a particular spec. It needs to be powered with an electric rear hub and have luggage capacity, disc brakes and front suspension. Their funds are limited and realistically they will be needing used parts.
I am very experienced in building quality conventional pedal cycles but electric bikes is a whole new kettle of piranhas.
Is this necessary?

Are you really taking this on?
I agree with 531colin. Your friends have produced a very specific list of wants, and I suspect they lack not only the knowledge and skills to assemble the bike themselves, they also don't have enough knowledge and experience of bikes and ebikes generally to know that what they are asking for would be actually suitable or any good. It sounds like the ebike equivalent of the car designed by Homer Simpson.

Image

Your friends have not asked you 'to *help construct* a bike with a particular spec'. If that were genuinely the case they would have done the necessary research, identified one or more suitable frames readily and cheaply available, and established what hub motor and suspension fork were needed and would be compatible with the frame they had chosen.

Put bluntly, I think your friends are effectively asking you to build a bike which will require you to take the responsibility and research for a lot of design decisions to achieve their spec. Given their apparent ignorance of what they are asking for will actually be like to ride and use, this sounds to me like a recipe for disappointment (and even a damaged friendship).

I suspect if an ordinary paying customer came to you with a similar request, you would decline, and with good reason.
Biospace
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Re: Help me find….

Post by Biospace »

peetee wrote: 16 Jan 2023, 3:49pm They already have the wheel, and electrics and as they are friends I am looking into it for them.
What's the wheel size? The stated specs reduce choice/makes life difficult for you. Would something like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354519670962 with a front disc and rear canti be too ancient/unacceptable? Not sure on the heel clearance, but not the worst for its type.
Jamesh
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Joined: 2 Jan 2017, 5:56pm

Re: Help me find….

Post by Jamesh »

Did you find something?

I have a NOS Raleigh steel MTN bike.

Based in Yorkshire.

Cheers James
peetee
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Re: Help me find….

Post by peetee »

The idea has been put on a shelf after I persuaded them that their combination of requirements was difficult to achieve with their budget.
Thanks for the input everyone.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
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Cowsham
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Re: Help me find….

Post by Cowsham »

peetee wrote: 16 Jan 2023, 3:49pm They already have the wheel, and electrics and as they are friends I am looking into it for them.

An electric hub that's 145mm axle ?
I am here. Where are you?
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