Law on restricted ebikes

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc. that are legal in the UK
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Cugel
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by Cugel »

djnotts wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 12:57pm Cugel:
"I'd do the same with cars - power limited so no car could ever get above around 70mph in practice. Why do motorists need to go from 0-60 in 7 seconds, 11 seconds or even 30 seconds? Only 'cos that's what they're used to and like. There's no safe and sensible reason, despite the cries that, "I accelerate out of trouble". (Into it, more like)."

+1. But the max speed limit should be at least 10mph less than max achievable speed. Especially on a m'cycle, acceleration IS one way out of trouble. As the police m'cycle training manual used to advise, always have at least 10 in hand, giving a choice between decreasing or increasing speed in order to minimise time in a vulnerable position.
Vehicles simply should not be capable of speeds double the max limit on the roads.
The "accelerate out of trouble" claim ..... .

If the driver/rider is a professional trained to professional standards and abilities, such a tactic may occasionally be the best as the driver/rider approaches a dangerous potential collision. But the vast majority of driver/riders are competent only in the 99.99% of cases where there is no potential collision upcoming in a very, very short time. Most who try to "accelerate out of trouble" end up accelerating into it and increasing the combined momentums involved in the ensuing crash.

The problem with motorised vehicles is fundamentally too much power, not too fast a maximum speed. Maximum speed is, anyway, automatically limited by power - on the flat and uphill, at least.

*****************

The objection to a slightly higher assist speed for e-bikes seems to be based on the notion that owners will somehow all throw caution to the wind and also head for the so-called shared paths with pedestrians, where they will try very hard to ride into people as fast as possible. This is just nonsense - and a complete red herring. The problem is inconsiderate cyclists of all kinds, not just e-cyclists; and inconsiderate pedestrians. A combination generally known as "bluddy humans". :-)

As a fit ex-racing cyclists, I know that cycling in traffic at speeds closer to that of the traffic is actually safer than being forced to pooter along in the gutter inside a useless white line, as every motorist does a close pass on us "because they're in the cycling lane and I'm in the car lane" (the thickness of the white line away). Doing 20mph in town traffic, owning the lane, is a lot safer.

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
Brik
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by Brik »

NickWi wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 10:33pm Cars drivers should take a test and they aught to have a licence (for what it's worth) but most of all, cars shouldn't be driven by children.
I've edited your quote to better reflect (my) reality.
I may have mentioned previously on this forum that I am currently banned from driving well I'm almost too embarrassed to admit that, at the age of 46, this is the third time I've been banned.
The first time I was banned was when I was 16.
I'd been driving regularly on the roads since the age of around 11 but because it was only my Mom's cars I used to drive I kept getting cautions, the cautions stopped when I reached 13 years of age and eventually I was on put before the courts.
I know everyone thinks they are the world's best driver, and I hate to say it but, I was a better driver as a child than most who have passed their test!
Brik
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by Brik »

Cugel wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 3:13pm The problem with motorised vehicles is fundamentally too much power...

Cugel
I respectfully disagree, the problem is not too much power, more how the person uses it, this applies to cars and bikes.

A kid on an unpowered BMX is more than capable of killing himself on it. We rely too much on regulations and not enough on common sense coupled with good guidance.
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Cugel
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by Cugel »

Brik wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 7:40pm
Cugel wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 3:13pm The problem with motorised vehicles is fundamentally too much power...

Cugel
I respectfully disagree, the problem is not too much power, more how the person uses it, this applies to cars and bikes.

A kid on an unpowered BMX is more than capable of killing himself on it. We rely too much on regulations and not enough on common sense coupled with good guidance.
Well ..... we humans are .... human. We're not nearly as sensible as the notion of common sense assumes. So, given that we're all naturally going to be not-sensible on many & various occasions, limiting just how unsensible we can be by, for instance, limiting the power of motor cars seems to end up as a fundamental way to save unsensible humans from their silly ways, to some degree.

I know, I know. All gawd's children have to have their freedumbs, or they'll have a paddy, do a Duchess of Pout or stamp their feet and scream. Then they'll kill or main themselves or others, possibly whilst moaning on about unnecessary regulations.

Personally I'd make the tests for getting at a car far harder and more frequent. To bolster this winnowing out of the worst of the unsensible, I'd also make the penalties for car crimes far larger. The things are killing over a million humans every year worldwide, maiming probably 100X that number and poisoning just about everyone with their toxic fumes.

E-bikes with assistance up to 20mph - far less dangerous and eminently sensible. They also make you fitter, which can improve brain functioning an' all. :-)

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
mattsccm
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by mattsccm »

Cugel. Why pootle along in the gutter? Hold your ground.
I agree with you regarding penalties. Stuff persuasion. Punish
Stick at least 2 zeros on every current fine, humiliate and make road crimes so unpopular that people won't do it.
deeferdonk
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by deeferdonk »

i didn't realise this until this thread prompted me to google it, but it looks like new cars are/will be required to have a form of speed limiter fitted - although can be disabled. :roll:

https://www.parkers.co.uk/car-advice/sp ... n-for-you/
Jdsk
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by Jdsk »

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Audax67
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by Audax67 »

Jdsk wrote: 15 Feb 2023, 8:17am The EU agreement:
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pressco ... IP_19_1793
...
Jonathan
...C-ITS allow vehicles to ‘talk' to each other, to the road infrastructure, and to other road users...
Hope it's not too hackable. I can imagine teenage Chinese hackers (possibly called Marvin) dropping ransomware on the Autoroute de l'Est.
Have we got time for another cuppa?
djnotts
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by djnotts »

An aside.... passed by an e-scooter, on wide cycle path, doing 35-40 mph, easily estimated by ref to cars on adjoining dual carriage way.
Braver man than I.
jgurney
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by jgurney »

djnotts wrote: 5 Mar 2023, 11:00pm Al passed by an e-scooter, on wide cycle path, doing 35-40 mph,
Braver man than I.
No, too much of a coward to ride it on the dual carriageway where he belonged if doing that speed.
djnotts
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by djnotts »

More likely to be busted on the road.
Paul A
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by Paul A »

I'm a bit late to this party having only ridden my ebike for the first time today.
I would like to have option of going faster than 15mph. I was riding along a straight pan flat country road today into a head wind and the restrictor kept cutting in making the bike feel like I was constantly dabbing the back brake. It wasn't really very pleasant .

I had to plough through the head wind of 4 pages of opinions to get this far in the thread, I don't know which was the more difficult... :wink:
Nearholmer
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by Nearholmer »

I would like to have option of going faster than 15mph
That option is open to you by at least one route, and possibly two:

- buy a moped; and,

- if you are able, pedal harder.
Paul A
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by Paul A »

That, unfortunately is the reply that I was expecting.

I have an 1100cc motorbike and I can't pedal harder due to a bad hip, hence the electric bike.
Nearholmer
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Re: Law on restricted ebikes

Post by Nearholmer »

This is a genuine question, not a dig at you or anyone else, but why then, if you find the 15mph assistance limit on an EAPC too low, don’t you get a moped for trips where firing up the big bike wouldn’t be justified?
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