Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
mattheus
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by mattheus »

simonineaston wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 10:57am Useless for proper navigation.
For me, navigation is about getting to where I want to go, safely and efficiently, sometimes by the route I had intended.

I can only guess that "proper navigation" is the same, whilst being seen to own the "proper" equipment and to have the "proper" expertise.

simonineaston wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 10:57amTheir only plus is to act as a barely better than nothing at all back-up in case you lose whatever else you're using.

Isn't that how many backups work?

simonineaston wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 10:57amBetter off asking someone the way.
I think this has been addressed by member Galactic.
a.twiddler
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by a.twiddler »

Re Asking a Local for Directions. Is the aversion to this a Bloke thing then? I note we have not had the ladies' point of view about this.

I definitely have an aversion to asking for directions. I usually have a good sense of direction even in unknown parts but very occasionally I have managed to get spectacularly lost too, and turned around on my route. I don't usually carry a compass (though my recently acquired Garmin Etrex 20, mostly used as a bike computer, has one, though you have to select it). I have a small Silva compass and a basic folding prismatic one too, somewhere. Perhaps I should bring one with me when I do my next (relatively) long ride. Maybe it's my inherent press-on-itis that makes me reluctant to stop and step away from the bike and, yes, empty my pockets of metallic objects such as my Swiss army knife which has acquired enough magnetism over the years to be able to pick up small screws, to be confident of an accurate magnetic compass reading. I could have covered a mile or more (maybe in the wrong direction) by the time I've finished faffing about!

Perhaps I would be more likely to remember to bring a small button compass along for the ride, if I could be convinced of its reliability.
Having said that, the one you have got with you is always going to be more useful than the one you have in your drawer at home.
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simonineaston
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by simonineaston »

Well, I think we're going to have to agree to differ. Nothing worse than a backup that turns out to be useless. And asking local knowledge for pointers has worked well for me in the past. For example, the time when I arrived at a small town in rural France, looking for friends staying at Moulin de Brelidy. I had imagined - wrongly as it transpired - that the mill of Brelidy would be close to the town. It is not. The kind man - some sort of administrative official working late at the town hall, explained carefully & exactly where it was and sensing that my French wasn't up to the job (it's a rather difficult route as can be seen below!), drew me a rather wobbley but detailed map on a knapkin. I still have it somewhere.
not the same but different
not the same but different
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
mattheus
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by mattheus »

a.twiddler wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 1:35pm Re Asking a Local for Directions. Is the aversion to this a Bloke thing then? I note we have not had the ladies' point of view about this.
I thought it was clear from the relevant post that the aversion was based on experience. (of course, had one wisely asked Simon's Brelidy friend, one would have a better experience.)

Is it a bloke thing to not read what is written? :-)
Carlton green
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by Carlton green »

a.twiddler wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 1:35pm Re Asking a Local for Directions. Is the aversion to this a Bloke thing then? I note we have not had the ladies' point of view about this.
Isn’t asking for directions a sign of weakness? Surely a real Bloke always knows where he is and has a perfect sense of direction coupled to a finely honed intellect. Now here we have one of the hidden benefits of button compasses, a button compass can be so discreetly used that a real Bloke’s reputation might remain intact when a lesser person would have had to resort to asking for directions. :lol: :lol:

mattheus wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 3:25pm Is it a bloke thing to not read what is written? :-)
Page 612 of The Gentleman’s Guide clearly states that: “a real man has no interest in the childish muttering and scribbling of others for with his greater intellect and superior masculinity he already knows the answers to all things”. Yes it does … :wink:
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
Galactic
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by Galactic »

Not wanting to ask for directions is definitely a blokey thing, but experience trumps my desire to work against negative male socialisation.

BTW, I was once asked for directions by a platoon of scary looking riot cops in a forest. They showed me a map (held upside down) and asked if I knew where we were. I showed them where we were, and also showed them my compass, pointing out that north was in the opposite direction from what they thought it was. They got all blokey at that and insisted they were right and I was wrong. Knowing not to argue with a dozen tooled-up riot cops (complete with body armour, helmets, batons, guns etc), I bade them good day and left them to it.

At least they didn't make the cardinal mistake of asking a local, instead making the wise choice to stop a cycle tourer from another country. I still sometimes wonder whether they ever made it out alive (it was a big forest).
st599_uk
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by st599_uk »

re: asking locals - it's fine, until that instant you're lost in Germany and accidentally duzt someone in the question.
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Carlton green
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by Carlton green »

Needs vary between individuals and groups, what is overkill or inappropriate for the use of some might be ideal for others. This morning I was reading the Cycle Touring magazine and I noticed battery driven navigation aids starting at about £100; I’ve got about for years and never needed such stuff: a paper map’s almost always enough for me and a compass is a plus. Perhaps I’m some sort of Dinosaur or perhaps I’m not taken in by gizmos … but if others get pleasure from using them then what’s not to like about them being happy.

With regard to asking others for directions I’ve nothing against that and have done it many times, had some interesting conversations too. However there are a few potential issues too:
# You have to find/have someone to ask.
# The person must be able to understand you and vice versa.
# The person must actually know the correct answer to your question … and be happy to give it.

When you’re up a mountain and in thick fog you’ll struggle to find someone. Talking to non English speakers can be difficult. It’s very possible to speak to someone who doesn’t know the answers and someone being happy to help isn’t a given.

When you expect to navigate somewhere then taking a decent map and a good compass is wise. What’s the role of a small or button compass? Well for me it’s a case of having a plan B and for that they are, IMHO, excellent … as I’ve found out in use. Having some rough paper map can be handy too.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
mattheus
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by mattheus »

Carlton green wrote: 1 Feb 2023, 2:23pm Needs vary between individuals and groups, what is overkill or inappropriate for the use of some might be ideal for others. This morning I was reading the Cycle Touring magazine and I noticed battery driven navigation aids starting at about £100;
That's a lot of dosh for a head-torch ...
Carlton green
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by Carlton green »

mattheus wrote: 1 Feb 2023, 4:46pm
Carlton green wrote: 1 Feb 2023, 2:23pm Needs vary between individuals and groups, what is overkill or inappropriate for the use of some might be ideal for others. This morning I was reading the Cycle Touring magazine and I noticed battery driven navigation aids starting at about £100;
That's a lot of dosh for a head-torch ...
:D :lol: :lol:


… and for anyone actually wanting a head torch I recommend an entry level Petzl at £25-20 depending on model and dealer offers; they’re not the cheapest but I’ve had very good use out of mine and despite being tight fisted I think them worth the money.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
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MrsHJ
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by MrsHJ »

a.twiddler wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 1:35pm Re Asking a Local for Directions. Is the aversion to this a Bloke thing then? I note we have not had the ladies' point of view about this.
I ain’t no lady but I do ask for directions!
AndyK
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by AndyK »

PH wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 11:39am
Galactic wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 1:10pm If there's one method of navigation I'll try at all costs to avoid, it's asking locals.
That made me laugh, there's a good bit of truth in it. I used to ride with someone who relied on chat-nav, it did sometimes turn into a mystery tour.
Cue for ancient jokes:

"If I were you, I wouldn't start from here."

and

"I say, old man, where does this road go?"
"Oi bin 'ere seventy years, sir, and it ain't gone nowhere yet."

Seriously, out in the countryside locals' advice is often based on their driving routes, so there's a good chance you'll be given directions that take you straight to the nearest trunk road. Not what you want on a bike ride.

The bane of my life is people who insist on trying to give me directions while I'm stopping and looking at the map to decide which of several familiar lanes I'd like to take today. I know they're only being thoughtful so I try to be polite and thank them, but sometimes it's hard for non-cyclists to grasp the concept that you're just out for a ride, going where the mood takes you. "I can help! Where are you trying to get to?" "Er... nowhere."
axel_knutt
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Re: Miniature and Button Compasses, your thoughts on.

Post by axel_knutt »

Carlton green wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 11:06pm
a.twiddler wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 1:35pm Re Asking a Local for Directions. Is the aversion to this a Bloke thing then? I note we have not had the ladies' point of view about this.
Isn’t asking for directions a sign of weakness? Surely a real Bloke always knows where he is and has a perfect sense of direction coupled to a finely honed intellect.
I'm not proud, I'll quite happily ask directions, I flagged down a passing motorist once, but.....

Within a very short time of taking up cycle touring I learned never to ask directions unless you want to be sent down the motorway, or wherever all the cars go. Conversations invariably end with something along this theme:

"Yes, but that's the main road. According to the map, there's a country lane goes across here somewhere"
"Ah, dunno nuffin about that mate, if you want Blogthorpe, it's down there"

Then there was:

"Is this the right road for xxxx"
"xxxx? That's miles away, you'll never make it!"
Two miles actually, in the middle of a 60 mile day.

"Excuse me, do you know where the Youth Hostel is please?"
"There's no Youth Hostel here"
"There had better be, I've got a bed booked for tonight"
It was about 50 yards away.

The last time I recall asking was in Preston town centre, wanting the road for Leyland. Not one of half a dozen passers-by knew, so I just followed my nose, and ended up on the A49 through Euxton. I'd been wanting the B5250 through Leyland, but it was good enough. By comparison, negotiating Wigan and Warrington was a doddle.
Galactic wrote: 31 Jan 2023, 11:18am BTW, I was once asked for directions by a platoon of scary looking riot cops in a forest. They showed me a map (held upside down) and asked if I knew where we were. I showed them where we were, and also showed them my compass, pointing out that north was in the opposite direction from what they thought it was. They got all blokey at that and insisted they were right and I was wrong. Knowing not to argue with a dozen tooled-up riot cops (complete with body armour, helmets, batons, guns etc), I bade them good day and left them to it.
On one occasion I was fairly sure I was on the right track but something had made me wonder, and there was a woman by the junction, so I asked. Almost immediately I realised my mistake, and then spent the next ten minutes losing the will to live as I tried to think of a polite way to extricate myself, and not go the way she was telling me. At one point I showed her the map, and said

"We're here aren't we?"
"No!"
"So where are we, then?"
She just waved her hand across the map in a broad sweep, and said
"There"

(By the time I'd got the map out I could see I was right, I'd just asked because I was trying to save the bother of digging it out of the pannier)
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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