QR tightness

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
Post Reply
robing
Posts: 1359
Joined: 7 Sep 2014, 9:11am

QR tightness

Post by robing »

My bike didn't feel right and pedalling was hard work. I realised the problem -
I'd tightened the QR on the rear wheel way too tight and the wheel wasn't spinning freely.
Easy fix! Bike feels fine again.
User avatar
531colin
Posts: 16083
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: QR tightness

Post by 531colin »

Adjusting cup and cone hubs.....viewtopic.php?f=5&t=143125&start=15
mattsccm
Posts: 5101
Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 9:44pm

Re: QR tightness

Post by mattsccm »

If the cones are correct you'll have to close the Qr with a hammer before it will stop the wheel moving.
cyclop
Posts: 964
Joined: 3 Oct 2013, 7:49am
Location: Dumfriesshire

Re: QR tightness

Post by cyclop »

Setting up cup and cone bearings is a bit "suck it and see".I clean and assemble with a small amount of play which is then taken up by the quick release.How much play?well,suck it and see.It may take a couple of tries.Having the correct ,thin spanners for the lock nuts is essential.Some degree of skill/practice required but stripping/cleaning/checking for wear and reassembling hubs can be a satisfying/challenging/frustrating experience.Tips?separate the ballbearings into rt/left side ,clean and return onto the same side.Apart from the technicalities involved,good work practice is essential for the job i.e.clean rags,containers and,for final assembly,clean hands.DONT LOSE YOUR BALLS.!!! :?
bluespeeder
Posts: 101
Joined: 9 Nov 2021, 3:40pm

Re: QR tightness

Post by bluespeeder »

cyclop wrote: 7 Feb 2023, 7:52am Setting up cup and cone bearings is a bit "suck it and see".I clean and assemble with a small amount of play which is then taken up by the quick release.How much play?well,suck it and see.It may take a couple of tries.Having the correct ,thin spanners for the lock nuts is essential.Some degree of skill/practice required but stripping/cleaning/checking for wear and reassembling hubs can be a satisfying/challenging/frustrating experience.Tips?separate the ballbearings into rt/left side ,clean and return onto the same side.Apart from the technicalities involved,good work practice is essential for the job i.e.clean rags,containers and,for final assembly,clean hands.DONT LOSE YOUR BALLS.!!! :?
A good tip on ball separation. I failed to do this and find the play comes and goes on my rear wheel as you rotate the wheel, maybe the right and left bearings have worn slightly differently and I have mixed them up. New balls please!
TheBomber
Posts: 525
Joined: 16 Feb 2020, 8:18pm

Re: QR tightness

Post by TheBomber »

An extra tip that helps me with some XTR hubs that can be tricky to get right: if you’ve set them up right before, take note of the amount of play before beginning the disassembly process.
axel_knutt
Posts: 2881
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 12:20pm

Re: QR tightness

Post by axel_knutt »

robing wrote: 6 Feb 2023, 5:52pm My bike didn't feel right and pedalling was hard work. I realised the problem -
I'd tightened the QR on the rear wheel way too tight and the wheel wasn't spinning freely.
Easy fix! Bike feels fine again.
Easy fix how? Don't run with the skewer too loose to compensate for cones that are too tight.
cyclop wrote: 7 Feb 2023, 7:52am Setting up cup and cone bearings is a bit "suck it and see".
Only the first time.
If you record the cone settings you can reset them back where they were without any trial and error thereafter. My Deore hubs (both F&R) have about the right amount of slack with the cones backed off by 100 degrees.
YMMV
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
slowster
Moderator
Posts: 4629
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: QR tightness

Post by slowster »

See also the first page of the thread which 531colin linked to above, in particular the text quoted from one of Brucey's posts (copied again below) on setting up and using a hub vice. I make up a hub vice when I need to adjust a hub using a QR skewer, penny washers and a cone and locknuts scavanged from an old hub. I don't actually use it with a vice. The key thing is bringing the normal clamping force of the QR to bear on the end face of the axle on the non-drive side. I think it might even be possible to do that with just the QR skewer and penny washers if the latter are a good close fit on the skewer.
Brucey wrote:you can get the hub bearing adjustment spot on in less than a minute using a 'hub vice', provided the hub is a conventional cup and cone QR hub.

The hub vice uses a QR skewer (or long bolt or w.h.y.) which is tightened to normal QR tension in such a way as the load is seen by the RH locknut and the LH axle end, using a suitable spacer each end (eg out of an old derailleur pulley at the LH end) or a stack of washers. The hub axle/locknut is then held (eg using a bench vice) on the RHS.

Because the QR load is borne by the LH axle end and not the LH locknut, the LH cone and locknut are readily accessible. When you trial an adjustment, you can snug the locknut down and it'll be much as if the wheel is in a frame with the QR similarly tight.

The fastest adjustment procedure is to finger-tighten the LH cone and then back it off about 1/5th of a turn. Then tighten the locknut and check for free play. This won't be exact but it is rare that you will be more than 1/10th of a turn out. The best adjustment is a tiny bit of free play followed by a further small (1/50th of a turn say) adjustment which removes the free play.

I've posted details of the hub vice I built here before and I might be able to find the relevant thread. There is also a write-up on Sheldon Brown.https://sheldonbrown.com/cone-adjustment.html where the hub vice is referred to as a special tool.

FWIW although it is common practice I do not recommend backing cones and locknuts against one another willy-nilly. For one thing you can't back off cassette hubs this way (there is usually no access to the RH cone) and for a second, if the RH cone and locknut start to move, it can destroy the hub. The RH cone and locknut ought to be tightened fully against one another (ideally using threadlock on the RH cone threads) and then left alone. With the RH cone/locknut in a vice, you must hold the LH cone using a cone spanner when loosening or tightening the locknut. This way (provided you keep track of any backlash between the cone spanner and the cone) you can get a really precise adjustment.

FWIW if you work to a tolerance of 1/100th of a turn then the bearings will be set to an accuracy of about ten microns. This is far better than the usual accuracy you get in a cartridge bearing hub, by the time you have allowed for typical variations in the fit quality of the bearings and so forth.

BTW rebuilding freehub bodies is not work for the impatient. Normally the topmost shims come out with the balls still in position, but they don't always come out easily. A pair of (tiny , non magnetic) paddles is often the best way of lifting the shims. The amount of free play you describe is still too much really, so more adjustment is required.

cheers
robing
Posts: 1359
Joined: 7 Sep 2014, 9:11am

Re: QR tightness

Post by robing »

Thanks for the tips :D
rogerzilla
Posts: 2887
Joined: 9 Jun 2008, 8:06pm

Re: QR tightness

Post by rogerzilla »

If you have a difficult case like chromed horizontal dropouts and a small chainring, where a QR needs to be very tight, you have to set the cones a little slacker than usual to allow for the absolute mullering you will need to give the QR.
rjb
Posts: 7200
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 10:25am
Location: Somerset (originally 60/70's Plymouth)

Re: QR tightness

Post by rjb »

rogerzilla wrote: 12 Feb 2023, 12:38pm If you have a difficult case like chromed horizontal dropouts and a small chainring, where a QR needs to be very tight, you have to set the cones a little slacker than usual to allow for the absolute mullering you will need to give the QR.
In that situation it was suggested that a thin copper washer on the QR axle could help prevent slipping. (Presumably under the QR end nut). :wink:

More here my 2 pennies worth :lol: viewtopic.php?t=64896#p556943
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
Post Reply