Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

User avatar
Cowsham
Posts: 4951
Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by Cowsham »

DaveReading wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 10:25pm
Cowsham wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 6:51pm
DaveReading wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 1:55pm

It's a reasonable inference from the linked article, which says "The Isle of Man Constabulary says they had received a number of calls from concerned people, several of which said they had nearly hit him due to the adverse weather conditions."

Fog does not cause drivers to hit cyclists, provided of course that they are driving appropriately for the conditions.
The drivers did not hit the cyclist. Don't make wild accusations.
I didn't say they had. Don't make stuff up.

Nor does fog cause drivers to almost hit cyclists.
That's what you inferred.
I am here. Where are you?
Carlton green
Posts: 3626
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by Carlton green »

fastpedaller wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 8:36pm
Vorpal wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 12:20pm
Pebble wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 12:14pm The police should be dealing with those driving inappropriately on that road, Not warning cyclists that there are a lot of poor drivers about.
This. Why didn't the police have a word with the callers who said they had nearly struck the cyclist? They must have been driving too fast for conditions.
Some 40 years ago myself and a friend cycling 2 abreast at a crawling speed behind traffic approaching a roundabout were told by a Police officer to single up because it was 2 in the afternoon and 'some motorists out there have been drinking'.
Any faith I had in the police was lost at that time.
I’m not disagreeing with you but I do wonder whether our expectations of the Police are unrealistic or, at times, even that sensible … As in my earlier post I’m a pragmatist and believe that it is best to just recognise the situation and act accordingly. If the Police are kind enough to try to prevent an accident by removing what contributory factors that they can (with limited time and limited resources) then that’s a start, a pragmatic start, but obviously not an ideal one.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
mattheus
Posts: 5030
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by mattheus »

slowster wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 8:44pm
Nearholmer wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 8:00pm Some people thought a person was putting themself in danger and was going to get killed; they phoned the police to ask them to intervene to prevent a tragedy; the police did.

Isn’t that a good news story?
No, it isn't. It indicates that the police on the Isle of Man are not properly enforcing traffic law, and are turning a blind eye to unsafe driving.
Do we know that they saw any unsafe driving?
User avatar
Cowsham
Posts: 4951
Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by Cowsham »

slowster wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 8:44pm
Nearholmer wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 8:00pm Some people thought a person was putting themself in danger and was going to get killed; they phoned the police to ask them to intervene to prevent a tragedy; the police did.

Isn’t that a good news story?
No, it isn't. It indicates that the police on the Isle of Man are not properly enforcing traffic law, and are turning a blind eye to unsafe driving.

Rule 235 of the Highway Code is essentially the same on the IoM as in the UK, i.e. "When driving in fog you should...be able to pull up well within the distance you can see clearly". Whereas the UK emphasises the importance of this on motorways and dual carriageways due to faster vehicle speeds, the IoM emphasises its importance for roads with no speed limits, e.g. the road in question in this case.

https://www.gov.im/media/1349469/highway-code.pdf

https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/fog.html

If the IoM police had a better grasp of road safety and its responsibility to uphold the law and maintain road safety, it would use an incident like this one as an opportunity to raise awareness among drivers generally on the IoM of the fundamental requirement to drive appropriately according to the conditions.

I am not suggesting that they threaten to prosecute those drivers who reported that they nearly hit hit the cyclist, but it would have been a good 'awareness raising opportunity' for the IoM to have put out a statement making it absolutely clear that if a driver nearly hits a cyclist 'due to the adverse weather conditions', then by definition the driver is committing an offence, and they need to change their driving behaviour.

Even better would be if the IoM police publicly warned that they would be occasionally deploying a traffic team with a mobile speed camera on the mountain road in poor visibility conditions, and that anyone caught driving at an excessive speed would be prosecuted.
And you're a moderator ??
I am here. Where are you?
mattheus
Posts: 5030
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by mattheus »

Cowsham wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 9:44am
And you're a moderator ??
:P
I guess their role is to moderate (the verb) us;
they're not required to BE moderate (adjective) !
Bonefishblues
Posts: 10977
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by Bonefishblues »

mattheus wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 8:09am
slowster wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 8:44pm
Nearholmer wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 8:00pm Some people thought a person was putting themself in danger and was going to get killed; they phoned the police to ask them to intervene to prevent a tragedy; the police did.

Isn’t that a good news story?
No, it isn't. It indicates that the police on the Isle of Man are not properly enforcing traffic law, and are turning a blind eye to unsafe driving.
Do we know that they saw any unsafe driving?
It was foggy after all :wink:
Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 20697
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by Vorpal »

mattheus wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 9:55am
Cowsham wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 9:44am
And you're a moderator ??
:P
I guess their role is to moderate (the verb) us;
they're not required to BE moderate (adjective) !
No, taking my kids places by bicycle in the UK radicalised me :mrgreen:
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
mattheus
Posts: 5030
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by mattheus »

Vorpal wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 10:12am
mattheus wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 9:55am
Cowsham wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 9:44am
And you're a moderator ??
:P
I guess their role is to moderate (the verb) us;
they're not required to BE moderate (adjective) !
No, taking my kids places by bicycle in the UK radicalised me :mrgreen:
Cause or effect?
:P
Nearholmer
Posts: 3898
Joined: 26 Mar 2022, 7:13am

Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by Nearholmer »

indicates that the police on the Isle of Man are not properly enforcing traffic law, and are turning a blind eye to unsafe driving.
A giant leap in assumptions.
slowster
Moderator
Posts: 4612
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by slowster »

The Isle of Man Constabulary says they had received a number of calls from concerned people, several of which said they had nearly hit him due to the adverse weather conditions.
Those drivers did not 'nearly hit him due to the adverse weather conditions', they nearly hit him because they were not driving appropriately to the conditions. If their statements that they nearly hit him are accepted at face value, then by definition they were committing an offence.
It wasn't during a race meeting but in thick fog where there are idiots race round in cars.
The cyclist is not the problem.
mattheus
Posts: 5030
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by mattheus »

slowster wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 10:59am
The Isle of Man Constabulary says they had received a number of calls from concerned people, several of which said they had nearly hit him due to the adverse weather conditions.
Those drivers did not 'nearly hit him due to the adverse weather conditions', they nearly hit him because they were not driving appropriately to the conditions. If their statements that they nearly hit him are accepted at face value, then by definition they were committing an offence.
So if they charged these drivers, with that evidence, where would you estimate the chances of a conviction?

"The accused phoned us up and said he nearly hit a cyclist."
Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 20697
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by Vorpal »

No one said that they should be charged, though? It's possible, even likely, that in some cases, the drivers embellished their accounts in order to prompt the police to do something.

IMO, while it would have been appropriate to speak to the drivers, charging them with anything would be OTT.

To me, the problem is simply the car-brain, or whatever you want to call it. That the police and drivers all seemed to think that it was the cyclist who was in the wrong.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
slowster
Moderator
Posts: 4612
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by slowster »

mattheus wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 11:24am So if they charged these drivers, with that evidence, where would you estimate the chances of a conviction?
I have already indicated above how I think the IoM police should have acted:
slowster wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 8:44pm If the IoM police had a better grasp of road safety and its responsibility to uphold the law and maintain road safety, it would use an incident like this one as an opportunity to raise awareness among drivers generally on the IoM of the fundamental requirement to drive appropriately according to the conditions.

I am not suggesting that they threaten to prosecute those drivers who reported that they nearly hit hit the cyclist, but it would have been a good 'awareness raising opportunity' for the IoM to have put out a statement making it absolutely clear that if a driver nearly hits a cyclist 'due to the adverse weather conditions', then by definition the driver is committing an offence, and they need to change their driving behaviour.

Even better would be if the IoM police publicly warned that they would be occasionally deploying a traffic team with a mobile speed camera on the mountain road in poor visibility conditions, and that anyone caught driving at an excessive speed would be prosecuted.
mattheus
Posts: 5030
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by mattheus »

Vorpal wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 11:34am It's possible, even likely, that in some cases, the drivers embellished their accounts in order to prompt the police to do something.

IMO, while it would have been appropriate to speak to the drivers, charging them with anything would be OTT.
Compeltely agree (n.b. I have trimmed your post to the bit that I agree with :) )
Vorpal wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 11:34am To me, the problem is simply the car-brain, or whatever you want to call it. That the police and drivers all seemed to think that it was the cyclist who was in the wrong.
well yes ... and no ...

It's still not possible to rule out that all parties were simply genuinely concerned for the cyclists safety. Rather like posters on this forum who tell everyone "we have a right to cycle <in such a way, in such a place/time etc> but you can't argue when you're dead, the 2tons of metal will always win any argument etc etc ..."

I have yet to see anything wrong with the police behaviour to the cyclist. They didn't charge him with anything, they didn't stop him cycling. But they did offer him assistance.

The drivers that phoned in may also have been simply well-meaning. But even if they DID see the cyclist as "the problem", that doesn't mean they've commited any offence - as stated by your fellow moderator.
Mike Sales
Posts: 7860
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Cyclist stopped 3 times by police

Post by Mike Sales »

The self incrimination of the drivers might not be enough for a prosecution, but it seems it was enough to hassle the cyclist, who was not the real source of the danger. If drivers cannot manage to drive safely in such conditions, perhaps the road should have been closed to motors. After all, a cyclist might not be the only obstacle they could hit by driving too fast: a driver moving at a more appropriate speed might suddenly appear. Might there not be an occasional boulder from the wall in the road?
The road danger was not from the rider, but from those who could not comply with the Highway Code.
When I wrestled a hired three speed up there I could not see the six kingdoms for Manannan's cloak, but got back down to Ramsey safely. I cannot remember feeling menaced.
I think Vorpal is right. The police are drivers too, and share the assumption that anything which might make a driver have to brake is, by definition, dangerous.
P.S. Actually, on the summit of Snaefell I could see a few yards of the Kingdom of Man.
Last edited by Mike Sales on 21 Mar 2023, 12:15pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Post Reply