Wot makes a tent 4 season?

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Tangled Metal
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by Tangled Metal »

I've had tents with Ti pegs that bent but they're harder to bend back.

You could argue that pegs that bend and bend back are still good pegs. I've had alloy that trying to bend back results in really twisted pegs. I've too had alloy pegs that bend a little too easily but still work well when straightened. Former wild country, latter vango/ force 10 and jack wolfskin. Not rocket science but still something that you generally more likely to get wrong with cheaper tents.
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Sweep
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by Sweep »

pjclinch wrote: 19 Mar 2023, 12:38pm
Tangled Metal wrote: 18 Mar 2023, 7:56pm ... Good pegs aren't cheap.
While I'm generally onside with what you say, interestingly the case that my Spacepacker, which has taken a lot of flack over its long life, came with what would generally be seen as very poor quality pegs. I read somewhere that Robert Saunders only added pages to tents as otherwise it was like getting a battery operated toy for Christmas with no batteries, and felt people would be better off choosing their own according to their particular needs.

And so there are these rather bendy cheap alloy skewers that seem about as rigid as a ripe bit of Camembert... but they've never let me down. They bend, and I bend them back, and they keep on doing their job.

While I wouldn't particularly recommend these to anyone, they do show that it's not Rocket Engineering and outside of specialist applications (e.g. hammering in to very rocky ground, or broad/long for very soft ground) pegs don't need to be anything out of the ordinary.

Pete.
It's fair enough companies supplying "middling" pegs with tents I think - can understand totally why they do it so that their tents can be competitively priced in a tough market. I have a couple of tents with quality DAC poles which nevertheless came with cheapish pegs. No great problem for of course even if you have several tents you only need to buy one set of quality pegs - which aren't actually all that expensive.
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Thehairs1970
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by Thehairs1970 »

Sweep wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 9:42am It's fair enough companies supplying "middling" pegs with tents I think - can understand totally why they do it so that their tents can be competitively priced in a tough market. I have a couple of tents with quality DAC poles which nevertheless came with cheapish pegs. No great problem for of course even if you have several tents you only need to buy one set of quality pegs - which aren't actually all that expensive.
I take your point BUT the pegs are an integral part of the tent’s structure so if I buy a four season tent, I expect four season pegs. After all, you wouldn’t buy a Ferrari and expect to have to then buy better tyres for it would you?

Maybe I’m just too stingy…
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andrew_s
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by andrew_s »

The thing with pegs is that what it's best to use depends on what ground you are pitching your tent on.

It's therefore common to buy extra pegs, of a different type to those supplied, so you can either replace the supplied pegs with those you consider to be more appropriate to where you want to camp, or take a variety of types so you can use the most appropriate peg in the most critical locations, with the other pegs in less critical places.

Quite aside from that, it's also common to supply the lightest available pegs, regardless of whether they are much good at attaching the tent to the ground, or not (I'm thinking of Terra Nova toothpicks here).
Tangled Metal
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by Tangled Metal »

It is possible to buy tents with the oegs toy can use. Can't remember now but I've come across tents that came with Ti or good alloy pegs of a good general type plus a few more suited to snow or sandy ground. Iirc one had pretty hefty stakes in there

Obviously UL tents will come with headline grabbing low weight partly by supplying toothpicks, or not including pegs and poles in the weight. However we're talking 4 season tents here. I doubt the UL toothpicks appear in the peg bags of this type of tent. More often they have an attempt at train reasonable pegs even if only of a general use type. Most of my better tents have had fin section alloy or Ti skewers of a reasonable length. Some had angle Ti pegs with them. I however have accumulated quite a week selection of tent pegs over the years. Some picked up from campsites or popular wildcamping spots. Pegs are disposable or forgettable to many it seems. 😆
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Sweep
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by Sweep »

Thehairs1970 wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 8:42pm
Sweep wrote: 20 Mar 2023, 9:42am It's fair enough companies supplying "middling" pegs with tents I think - can understand totally why they do it so that their tents can be competitively priced in a tough market. I have a couple of tents with quality DAC poles which nevertheless came with cheapish pegs. No great problem for of course even if you have several tents you only need to buy one set of quality pegs - which aren't actually all that expensive.
I take your point BUT the pegs are an integral part of the tent’s structure so if I buy a four season tent, I expect four season pegs. After all, you wouldn’t buy a Ferrari and expect to have to then buy better tyres for it would you?

Maybe I’m just too stingy…
er, don't think I have any tents anywhere near the price of a Ferrari.
I'd imagine Ferrari also has a bit more margin to play with than Vango/Snugpak etc.

And after all, I wouldn't buy a Vango and expect to have to have it serviced at vast expense every few miles.
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Carlton green
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by Carlton green »

I’m inclined to think that describing something as four season is too often misleading if not an outright lie. At item that is either perfect or very good for winter use might well be an embarrassment or OTT for use in summer weather, and likewise what’s good for spring and autumn could be just a limited match for either summer or winter use.

Yes, of course these things are blindingly obvious … but too often they’re only actually obvious with the benefit of hindsight.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
Vorpal
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by Vorpal »

Because a 4 season tent is designed to withstand harsh winter conditions; snow, wind, etc., that means it can get too warm in many places in the summer. But it's still suitable for 4 seasons at higher altitudes, or colder places, such as near or above the arctic circle.

I think if you look at the website for the folks who sell good quality 4 season tents, you'll see that they generally have explained this.
for example:
https://www.msrgear.com/blog/3-season-v ... t-for-you/
https://alpkit.com/blogs/spotlight/choo ... eason-tent

Helsport say that their 4 season tents are designed to be used year round, but frankly, while that is probably true for the Nordic countries or similar climates, I wouldn't want to use my 3 season tent much further south in the summer.
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pete75
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Re: Wot makes a tent 4 season?

Post by pete75 »

Carlton green wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 9:27am I’m inclined to think that describing something as four season is too often misleading if not an outright lie. At item that is either perfect or very good for winter use might well be an embarrassment or OTT for use in summer weather, and likewise what’s good for spring and autumn could be just a limited match for either summer or winter use.

Yes, of course these things are blindingly obvious … but too often they’re only actually obvious with the benefit of hindsight.
Not for me. For some reason I sleep cold. When I'm up and about, cycling and the like,or even just sitting outside I feel cold less than most people I'm with but sleeping I seem to feel cold more than others. I use a decent down bag too.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
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