Sram's new groupset (cycle tramp gets it wrong!)

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cycle tramp
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Sram's new groupset (cycle tramp gets it wrong!)

Post by cycle tramp »

... apparently its not a groupset any more, its an eco-system... in some Orwellian style language- £*€&ery Sram have taken the word eco-system (short for ecological system, duh) and are attempting to apply it to a bunch of clearly un-organic bits of metal that are designed to work together.... however not content with abusing and perverting the English language..

..apparently the new electronic derailleur only works with a special drop out - Sram have decided to ditch the standard derailleur mount, instead the new derailleur clamps around both sides of the new drop out, effectively using the wheel's axle to keep it in place. Thus if you buy a bike with this new style derailleur, you then have to keep using it.. ..like a drug addiction (EDIT this is the bit I got wrong - whilst this derailleur directly bolts onto the axle, if you don't want to use that derailleur, than sram do a universal drop out hanger in its place. Which has made my day, sram aren't the bad guys that I took them for).

The new derailleur doesn't have limit screws, which possibly makes shifting the thing, if/when it's been bent out of place, an exciting adventure.. or possibly a long tour.

..for those still reading, Sram have also developed thru' the fram hydraulic hoses for the brakes....
Last edited by cycle tramp on 21 Mar 2023, 10:20pm, edited 2 times in total.
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PH
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Re: Sram's new groupset

Post by PH »

cycle tramp wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 7:19pm ..apparently the new electronic derailleur only works with a special drop out - Sram have decided to ditch the standard derailleur mount, instead the new derailleur clamps around both sides of the new drop out, effectively using the wheel's axle to keep it in place. Thus if you buy a bike with this new style derailleur, you then have to keep using it.. ..like a drug addiction
No, a frame designed for this direct mount derailleur will have the same fitting as used by SRAM's Universal Derailleur Hanger, which "To top it off, the new UDH is compatible with all current, commercially available mountain bike and electric mountain bike derailleurs from Shimano, Box Components, Sunrace and others."
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/sram-uni ... ur-hanger/
cycle tramp
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Re: Sram's new groupset

Post by cycle tramp »

PH wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 8:10pm
cycle tramp wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 7:19pm ..apparently the new electronic derailleur only works with a special drop out - Sram have decided to ditch the standard derailleur mount, instead the new derailleur clamps around both sides of the new drop out, effectively using the wheel's axle to keep it in place. Thus if you buy a bike with this new style derailleur, you then have to keep using it.. ..like a drug addiction
No, a frame designed for this direct mount derailleur will have the same fitting as used by SRAM's Universal Derailleur Hanger
tell you what, read the review - check out the photos and tell me if the new mech from sram even uses a rear derailleur hanger https://bikepacking.com/gear/sram-eagle ... on-review/ - if i'm wrong I'll buy you the beverage of your choice :-)
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PH
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Re: Sram's new groupset

Post by PH »

cycle tramp wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 8:30pm
PH wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 8:10pm
cycle tramp wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 7:19pm ..apparently the new electronic derailleur only works with a special drop out - Sram have decided to ditch the standard derailleur mount, instead the new derailleur clamps around both sides of the new drop out, effectively using the wheel's axle to keep it in place. Thus if you buy a bike with this new style derailleur, you then have to keep using it.. ..like a drug addiction
No, a frame designed for this direct mount derailleur will have the same fitting as used by SRAM's Universal Derailleur Hanger
tell you what, read the review - check out the photos and tell me if the new mech from sram even uses a rear derailleur hanger https://bikepacking.com/gear/sram-eagle ... on-review/ - if i'm wrong I'll buy you the beverage of your choice :-)
Nooo, that isn't what I said.
Maybe you should read you own link
UDH ONLY
First things first, the SRAM Eagle Transmission is only available for bikes built around SRAM’s own Universal Derailleur Hanger (UDH). Their UDH is now available on quite a few bikes, but only bikes that have been released after UDH’s rollout in 2019.
So yes, the new derailleur is direct mount to the frame, it uses no hanger. But, to repeat what I posted up thread, that same frame fitting can take a SRAM UDH which in turn can be used with any current MTB derailleur.
My beverage of choice is a Château Avenue Foch 2017
toontra
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Re: Sram's new groupset

Post by toontra »

So the rear mech attaches directly to the frame - like every bike I own (none of mine have detachable hangers)?
cycle tramp
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Re: Sram's new groupset

Post by cycle tramp »

PH wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 8:44pm
cycle tramp wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 8:30pm
PH wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 8:10pm
No, a frame designed for this direct mount derailleur will have the same fitting as used by SRAM's Universal Derailleur Hanger
if i'm wrong I'll buy you the beverage of your choice :-)
My beverage of choice is a Château Avenue Foch 2017
Hey I owe you a bottle of this chateau avenue foch 2017 stuff - I take it back - perhaps Sram has done something good (I've te-titled the thread :-))
Sadly I can't afford it, but I'm more than happy to send you a bottle of something else (to the value of £25) :-)
I'm really happy to be wrong - I had feared we were entering a point of no return when it came to component dominance.
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PH
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Re: Sram's new groupset

Post by PH »

cycle tramp wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 9:38pm Hey I owe you a bottle of this chateau avenue foch 2017 stuff - I take it back
:D
Got there in the end.
The universal dropout is a thing of the past, I'm not surprised other stuff is changing around it, or that some compatibility is being lost.
rareposter
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Re: Sram's new groupset (cycle tramp gets it wrong!)

Post by rareposter »

cycle tramp wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 7:19pm ... apparently its not a groupset any more, its an eco-system... in some Orwellian style language- £*€&ery Sram have taken the word eco-system (short for ecological system, duh) and are attempting to apply it to a bunch of clearly un-organic bits of metal that are designed to work together.... however not content with abusing and perverting the English language..
In general terminology it can be used to mean an interconnected system. Gets used a fair bit in technical "networks" of connected devices.

It's far from the first groupset to do that either. Shimano Airlines (the compressed air shifting system that was used on DH bikes for a while) was one such example, completely incompatible with anything else.

To a certain extent you could say the same of Campagnolo - while most of it is cross compatible within itself, it's largely incompatible with anything else in spite of the best efforts of "Shimergo" fans to mix and match and occasional specialist components such as Campag cassettes with Shimano splines (Miche) so you could sort of say that's it's own "ecosystem" of components.

Most groupsets are engineered that way - Ultegra works better when it's all Ultegra although it'll cope with (eg) SRAM chain or a Middleburn chainset.
I'm really happy to be wrong - I had feared we were entering a point of no return when it came to component dominance
I think most manufacturers have realised the potential of getting things wrong further down the line and ending up with something that has taken up thousands of hours of R&D, new machining and tooling, new stock and then finding that no-one wants it because it won't work with anything else. It's generally not good for business to be going totally unique with your own operating system. Unique bits, yes but you still need an element of cross-compatibility.
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