Not pedalling

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc. that are legal in the UK
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Mick F
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Not pedalling

Post by Mick F »

We were in Plymouth yesterday, and there are riders about on electric bikes.
There are hills, and none of them were turning the cranks at all. Must have seen half a dozen in half an hour.
Even riders delivering Deliveroo stuff ........... not pedalling at all up hills.

Therefore, these riders are riding electric vehicles.

No complaint from me BTW and I'm all for it, it's the law that's wrong.
Mick F. Cornwall
rjb
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Location: Somerset (originally 60/70's Plymouth)

Re: Not pedalling

Post by rjb »

As an ex Plymouth born and bred boy, I don't blame them. There aren't many flat bits in the city it's either up or down. :lol:
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
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willcee
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Re: Not pedalling

Post by willcee »

Agreed Mick, As was said by Harry Day , ex ace flier of WW1 rules are for the obedience of fools and guidance of wise men.. my query however and it occurs in all walks where civil and uncivil and unexperienced servants of the Crown put laws into something they know eff all about and then the fools in the government who know even less rubber stamp them, just like they did with the debacle of the N.iRISH PROTOCOL and continuing to do so with the Windsor edition...they need to walk a few miles or ride a few on the pedals with 70 year old limbs...w
yakdiver
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Re: Not pedalling

Post by yakdiver »

Pre 2016 bikes ???
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Mick F
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Re: Not pedalling

Post by Mick F »

I have no idea about which year they are from, but they all looked fine.
The way I understand it, it's only software that makes the lecky only "assist".
There's bound to be a way to get round it and turn the bike into a "moped".
All software is hackable.

Even if it not a software hack, it's a matter of a rewiring job - battery to motor.

Where there's a will, there's a way.
Mick F. Cornwall
Jdsk
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Re: Not pedalling

Post by Jdsk »

Mick F wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 3:33pm We were in Plymouth yesterday, and there are riders about on electric bikes.
There are hills, and none of them were turning the cranks at all. Must have seen half a dozen in half an hour.
Even riders delivering Deliveroo stuff ........... not pedalling at all up hills.

Therefore, these riders are riding electric vehicles.

No complaint from me BTW and I'm all for it, it's the law that's wrong.
Did you think that they were going faster than 15.5 mph?

Thanks

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Not pedalling

Post by Jdsk »

Mick F wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 3:33pm We were in Plymouth yesterday, and there are riders about on electric bikes.
There are hills, and none of them were turning the cranks at all. Must have seen half a dozen in half an hour.
Even riders delivering Deliveroo stuff ........... not pedalling at all up hills.

Therefore, these riders are riding electric vehicles.

No complaint from me BTW and I'm all for it, it's the law that's wrong.
Mick F wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 9:04am I have no idea about which year they are from, but they all looked fine.
The way I understand it, it's only software that makes the lecky only "assist".
There's bound to be a way to get round it and turn the bike into a "moped".
All software is hackable.

Even if it not a software hack, it's a matter of a rewiring job - battery to motor.

Where there's a will, there's a way.
From what you've told us it sounds as if they are already mopeds.

What do you think is wrong with the law?

Thanks

Jonathan
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Mick F
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Re: Not pedalling

Post by Mick F »

Just remembering and thinking about this issue.

Riding in a city centre on shared use paths and roads and places, any rider - mechanical or electric - has to be careful of course.
I've only seen this issue in the city, so I have no idea how they would go on the open road. The main thing that is very noticeable, is that these riders are going up the hills and slopes ............ and some are hundreds of yards long .......... and not turning a crank.

Anyone who has visited Plymouth city in recent years will have seen these riders. Usually young men.
For instance, from the city centre on Royal Parade all the way UP to the station. Quite a climb even as a pedestrian.

Even leaving the station for the city centre, it's a climb up to North Rd Roundabout via the shared use paths.

Two shots of Plymouth.
I have seen many a rider going up these without turning a crank.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.37698 ... 384!8i8192

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.37232 ... 312!8i6656

I have no issue whatsoever about this.
The law is an ass and needs to be re-written.
Mick F. Cornwall
Nearholmer
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Re: Not pedalling

Post by Nearholmer »

I have no issue whatsoever about this.
The law is an ass and needs to be re-written.
I’ll say what I always say when this old chestnut crops up: my personal take is that whatever the law is, it needs to ensure in a very practical, actually effective, fashion that any e-assisted bike or e-thing that gets onto a shared-use path has a performance characteristic that emulates pure human power quite closely.

We all know what happens when hugely different performance characteristics are mixed in the same space: the “weaker” beasts get bullied out. Just like bikes got bullied off the roads to a great extent as car performance increased.

Change the law carelessly, and human power, on foot, bike, whatever, will get bullied off shared paths by mopeds and micro-vans.
Jdsk
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Re: Not pedalling

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 12:37pm
Mick F wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 3:33pm We were in Plymouth yesterday, and there are riders about on electric bikes.
There are hills, and none of them were turning the cranks at all. Must have seen half a dozen in half an hour.
Even riders delivering Deliveroo stuff ........... not pedalling at all up hills.

Therefore, these riders are riding electric vehicles.

No complaint from me BTW and I'm all for it, it's the law that's wrong.
Mick F wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 9:04am I have no idea about which year they are from, but they all looked fine.
The way I understand it, it's only software that makes the lecky only "assist".
There's bound to be a way to get round it and turn the bike into a "moped".
All software is hackable.

Even if it not a software hack, it's a matter of a rewiring job - battery to motor.

Where there's a will, there's a way.
From what you've told us it sounds as if they are already mopeds.

What do you think is wrong with the law?
Mick F wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 3:36pm The law is an ass and needs to be re-written.
What do you think is wrong with the law?

Thanks

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Not pedalling

Post by Jdsk »

Nearholmer wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 4:49pm
I have no issue whatsoever about this.
The law is an ass and needs to be re-written.
I’ll say what I always say when this old chestnut crops up: my personal take is that whatever the law is, it needs to ensure in a very practical, actually effective, fashion that any e-assisted bike or e-thing that gets onto a shared-use path has a performance characteristic that emulates pure human power quite closely.

We all know what happens when hugely different performance characteristics are mixed in the same space: the “weaker” beasts get bullied out. Just like bikes got bullied off the roads to a great extent as car performance increased.

Change the law carelessly, and human power, on foot, bike, whatever, will get bullied off shared paths by mopeds and micro-vans.
Same concern here.

But we don't know what the OP thinks is wrong with the law. I'm guessing that it's the requirement for pedalling rather than the limit on assisted speed...

Jonathan
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Re: Not pedalling

Post by Nearholmer »

Just nailing my colours to the mast!

The pedalling thing is actually a very fine line anyway: I frequently see people obviously ghost pedalling with full assist engaged. In fact, I’d say it’s the normal mode of operation for utility use round here.
slowster
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Re: Not pedalling

Post by slowster »

By the by, if the illegal de-restriction/modification of an ebike results in it being classed legally as a motorbike, then the rider will be an 'uninsured motorist'. It is the Motor Insurers' Bureau that deals with compensation claims for collisions where the rider of such a machine injures or kills another person, such as a pedestrian. The MIB is funded by a levy on all motor insurance companies in the UK, i.e. everyone's motor insurance insurance premiums include a small percentage for that levy. Drivers who are angry at the thought that they end up paying for uninsured motorists, will doubtless be further annoyed at the prospect of paying for the claims of illegal ebike riders as well.

The MIB can seek to recover such payments from the uninsured rider, but many will probably not have enough in the way of assets for that to be worthwhile. Conversely, however, an ordinary homeowner who rides an illegal ebike and kills/causes life changing injuries to another person, would be worth pursuing a recovery against, and could be bankrupted.
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foxyrider
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Re: Not pedalling

Post by foxyrider »

Mick F wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 3:36pm Just remembering and thinking about this issue.

Riding in a city centre on shared use paths and roads and places, any rider - mechanical or electric - has to be careful of course.
I've only seen this issue in the city, so I have no idea how they would go on the open road. The main thing that is very noticeable, is that these riders are going up the hills and slopes ............ and some are hundreds of yards long .......... and not turning a crank.

Anyone who has visited Plymouth city in recent years will have seen these riders. Usually young men.
For instance, from the city centre on Royal Parade all the way UP to the station. Quite a climb even as a pedestrian.

Even leaving the station for the city centre, it's a climb up to North Rd Roundabout via the shared use paths.

Two shots of Plymouth.
I have seen many a rider going up these without turning a crank.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.37698 ... 384!8i8192

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.37232 ... 312!8i6656

I have no issue whatsoever about this.
The law is an ass and needs to be re-written.
have you got the right places? look like 2 almost pan flat spots to me!
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!
swscotland bentrider
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Re: Not pedalling

Post by swscotland bentrider »

A lot of this thread seems to conflate cycles with what sounds like motorcycles. If the e ‘bike’ does not meet the legal definition then it is in effect a motorcycle. Illegal unless licensed etc. The fact that the law turns a blind eye is another issue. Perhaps we should ask ourselves why we are discussing electric motorcycles?
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