Heat in the home

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My central heating is set for what range?

I don't have central heating
8
13%
below 18
22
36%
18-20
24
39%
21-22
2
3%
23-25
2
3%
25-plus
3
5%
 
Total votes: 61

Jdsk
Posts: 24627
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Jdsk »

francovendee wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 8:25am ...
What has this got to do with heat pump installation? There is always a group of people who see the latest trend as a way of making money even if they don't have the required knowledge and skills.
Should installers be required to sit an exam?
It's often remarked that tradespeople in the UK are much less regulated than in some other countries, with the USA being a common comparator.

Is this generally true, or only cherrypicked anecdote?

Jonathan
roubaixtuesday
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Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by roubaixtuesday »

francovendee wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 8:10am
roubaixtuesday wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 12:43pm
al_yrpal wrote: 21 Mar 2023, 12:26pm I dont blame the technology! I didnt say that at all.

The problem with heat pumps is probably plumbers who either dont know how to calculate heat loads and radiator sizes that choose inadequate kit. And, its made harder by the fact that our housing stock is designed for fossil fuel heating systems. Walk into any show home with gas and note the postage stamp sized radiators.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bil ... d-out.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... co-decade/

https://www.thegreenage.co.uk/air-sourc ... he-answer/

Al
So, not daily, and only in the right wing press, owned by people who are prominent in climate change denial circles. The blog is clearly written by someone who doesn't understand thermodynamics ("latent heat from the air"!).

I do agree there are significant problems associated with retrofitting heat pumps, but it would be good to have a rational discourse rather than one mediated by Mail headlines or those pushed by the Barclay brothers.

And a reminder that ultimately, we don't have a choice; fossil fuels are finite and climate change is real. So it would be better to work out how to move these technologies forward rather than pretend we can all burn gas forever.
You missed this one AL linked .
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ns-unspent

I don't think this is right wing; I know Al posted 3 others that were but I like to be fair
I did miss that one.

It's not anti heat pump though, is it? Quite the opposite, seems to say rather that we should do more, faster?
reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by reohn2 »

From teacher to heatpump technician:- https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64860802
-----------------------------------------------------------
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mjr
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by mjr »

ANTONISH wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 9:39am I note that Bosch have produced an ASHP with a propane refrigerant which has much higher efficiency than the existing ASHP.
Where did you see that? This says it only matches an R32 Ecodan efficiency, roughly.
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/03/20/ ... lications/

Propane is still better than R32 and it is a quiet and more solid unit, so it is still worthwhile even if not more efficient.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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pete75
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by pete75 »

francovendee wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 8:25am

What has this got to do with heat pump installation? There is always a group of people who see the latest trend as a way of making money even if they don't have the required knowledge and skills.
Should installers be required to sit an exam?
The point that there is a shortage of trained and qualified system designers leaving plenty of room for cowboys has much to with heat pump installation. How is the average person to know if the design and install offered is any good?
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by pete75 »

mjr wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 11:02am
ANTONISH wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 9:39am I note that Bosch have produced an ASHP with a propane refrigerant which has much higher efficiency than the existing ASHP.
Where did you see that? This says it only matches an R32 Ecodan efficiency, roughly.
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/03/20/ ... lications/

Propane is still better than R32 and it is a quiet and more solid unit, so it is still worthwhile even if not more efficient.
Ammonia is the most efficient refrigerant and also the least costly.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
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mjr
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by mjr »

pete75 wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 10:21am
mjr wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 11:02am
ANTONISH wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 9:39am I note that Bosch have produced an ASHP with a propane refrigerant which has much higher efficiency than the existing ASHP.
Where did you see that? This says it only matches an R32 Ecodan efficiency, roughly.
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/03/20/ ... lications/

Propane is still better than R32 and it is a quiet and more solid unit, so it is still worthwhile even if not more efficient.
Ammonia is the most efficient refrigerant and also the least costly.
Just a shame it's poisonous and reacts with copper pipes, eh? Someone will make it work in standalone domestic units eventually, though. It's used in some industrial and water-source units.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
pete75
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by pete75 »

mjr wrote: 24 Mar 2023, 12:38am
pete75 wrote: 23 Mar 2023, 10:21am
mjr wrote: 22 Mar 2023, 11:02am

Where did you see that? This says it only matches an R32 Ecodan efficiency, roughly.
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/03/20/ ... lications/

Propane is still better than R32 and it is a quiet and more solid unit, so it is still worthwhile even if not more efficient.
Ammonia is the most efficient refrigerant and also the least costly.
Just a shame it's poisonous and reacts with copper pipes, eh? Someone will make it work in standalone domestic units eventually, though. It's used in some industrial and water-source units.
It's used in almost all cold store and food freezing plant.
There's no need to use copper pipes in a heat source pump or anything else using refrigerant for that matter. It's poisonous in very high concentrations in air but in an outdoor heat pump you wouldn't get that level from a leak - it gasses off immediately and being about half the weight of air doesn't hang about.
Any manufacturer can make it work in domestic units, and what's more work better than whatever version of freon they currently use.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Jon in Sweden
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Joined: 22 May 2022, 12:53pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Jon in Sweden »

Out of curiosity, I checked the electricity tariffs for our old house in Devon. It's only electricity, as the heating was oil and solid fuel.

£175 a month (£0.39/kwh). That's a lot of money for running appliances and the lights. More than we pay here in Sweden for a house that's 2.5 times the size and where the electricity does the heating too.

Given that the wholesale prices have come right down, why are the UK tariffs still so high? £6/day really is a lot for a small 3 bed house where it doesn't do the heating.

Electricity price here today is £0.17/kwh including all taxes.
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mjr
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by mjr »

Jon in Sweden wrote: 25 Mar 2023, 4:51pm Given that the wholesale prices have come right down, why are the UK tariffs still so high?
Time lag in the way UK retail energy prices are set, basically. IIRC, the May government set a method that fails when prices vary too quickly, the Johnson and Sunak governments tinkered at great expense (the energy price guarantee) but are basically stuck with it until things settle down.

So low wholesale prices now may be reflected in retail prices come July.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Biospace
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by Biospace »

Jon in Sweden wrote: 25 Mar 2023, 4:51pm Given that the wholesale prices have come right down, why are the UK tariffs still so high?

Electricity price here today is £0.17/kwh including all taxes.
Be grateful for Sweden's plentiful supply of hydro-electricity and Sweden's relatively small population for the size of its landmass.

Electricity standing charges here are set to rise 15%, according to https://uk.news.yahoo.com/martin-lewis- ... 22874.html, further penalising those who use little. How can a pricing policy which favours higher consumption square with the Governent's agenda for reducing emissions?
wheelyhappy99
Posts: 232
Joined: 5 Jul 2020, 11:12am

Re: Heat in the home

Post by wheelyhappy99 »

Despite the impression they give occasionally I don't see any evidence that this government has an agenda to reduce emissions. Policies have consistently undermined initiatives to do so. Remember George Osborne removed regulations introduced by the previous government that would have ended the installation of gas boilers several years ago. Retrofit home insulation schemes were abandoned and 90% of that industry disappeared. As a result domestic heating costs in the UK have been reported as £2Bn a year more than they would otherwise have been.
And yesterday, this:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theg ... l-aberdeen
They don't seem to have noticed the US and EU intitiatives to promote renewables and efficiency. All the hot air they produce talking about 'world beating' and so on is worthless if they pursue this approach and lock the UK industries into superseded technologies.
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[XAP]Bob
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Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by [XAP]Bob »

They mean they're beating the world with a big stick, and hoping they can break it completely.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
pete75
Posts: 16370
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by pete75 »

Jon in Sweden wrote: 25 Mar 2023, 4:51pm

Electricity price here today is £0.17/kwh including all taxes.
I'm paying 20.25 pence kwh day rate and 13.73 pence night rate including tax. Not so different to Sweden.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
rjb
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by rjb »

pete75 wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 12:25pm
Jon in Sweden wrote: 25 Mar 2023, 4:51pm

Electricity price here today is £0.17/kwh including all taxes.
I'm paying 20.25 pence kwh day rate and 13.73 pence night rate including tax. Not so different to Sweden.
The current price cap for electric is set at approx 35p/unit with a standing charges of 50p/day. How are you getting it so cheaply. :?
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