Awkward junction - advice wanted

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Jdsk
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Re: Left Turn And Busses

Post by Jdsk »

axel_knutt wrote: 25 Mar 2023, 11:56pm Unusual junction with such a long distance from the stop line to the left turn.

Ordinarily I'd use the middle lane as marked, but in the case of that one I might stay left like you are doing, but use primary position, and signal right just before the left turn in order to let following traffic know you're not turning left. By all means use the middle lane, but you might find traffic getting impatient with the time it takes to clear the junction.
cycle tramp wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 10:11am I'm still not sure which of the two lanes I would use - if the straight on lane to the right was for bus only, then I may pick that one as, - there may be less vehicles using it, and there should be cameras on tge bus to pick up any wrong doings, and there should be less instances of bus drivers being drunk at the wheel...
xjs wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 10:18am Is it slightly uphill? That would add to the difficulties, I think, if you can't get your speed up - adds to others' impatience. I'd probably use the left+buses lane, middle or middle-right of it, because I wouldn't want to get undertaken by a bus going straight on, but it would depend on the speed of the traffic in the right-hand lane and whether lights were green etc. And no, you can't win at junctions like that.
Yes, it's a problem and "you can't win" describes it well. Thanks for raising this.

Whichever I chose I'd be doing a lot of shoulder-checking coming up to the crunch point(s) and I'd establish my escape route(s) in case another road user put me in danger.

Jonathan

PS: I often ride a similar but shorter section on Cowley Road in Oxford. There's an additional problem if you're with another cyclist who chooses a different line.

PPS: When you write to the authority... it's spelt buses.
Jdsk
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Re: Left Turn And Busses

Post by Jdsk »

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.73433 ... 384!8i8192

The next junction is left lane to turn left, and right lane to go straight on. I usually want to go straight on and need to decide when to move to the right lane.The position shown is just after a stop line so I might have been stationary. And it's slightly uphill.

I usually go R early and control that lane. That means that I often get undertaken, but that I know where they're coming from.

Jonathan
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jrs665
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Re: Left Turn And Busses

Post by jrs665 »

xjs wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 10:18am Is it slightly uphill? That would add to the difficulties, I think, if you can't get your speed up - adds to others' impatience. I'd probably use the left+buses lane, middle or middle-right of it, because I wouldn't want to get undertaken by a bus going straight on, but it would depend on the speed of the traffic in the right-hand lane and whether lights were green etc. And no, you can't win at junctions like that. :)
It is uphill. What can make things worse is that the lights can change from green back to red in a few seconds if nothing behind you putting you at danger from traffic coming from the side, making you push hard to get through as quickly as possible.
Jdsk
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Re: Left Turn And Busses

Post by Jdsk »

Cowsham wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 12:53am ...
Personally I'd use the shared use footpath on the left. There's a cycle sign on it.
Where is that, please? After the junction?

Thanks

Jonathan
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Re: Left Turn And Busses

Post by cycle tramp »

xjs wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 10:18am Is it slightly uphill? That would add to the difficulties, I think, if you can't get your speed up - adds to others' impatience. I'd probably use the left+buses lane, middle or middle-right of it, because I wouldn't want to get undertaken by a bus going straight on, but it would depend on the speed of the traffic in the right-hand lane and whether lights were green etc. And no, you can't win at junctions like that. :)
Actually xjs makes a good point for the left hand lane, especially in regards the dangers of being undertaken by a bus...
..the other thing that strikes me is that traffic turning to the left may not be travelling so fast (in order to make that left turn) compared with the right..

..if I was using this junction on a regular basis I might chose either lane depending on the traffic flow and conditions at the time
It's time to go :-)
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Cowsham
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Re: Left Turn And Busses

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Jdsk wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 10:47am
Cowsham wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 12:53am ...
Personally I'd use the shared use footpath on the left. There's a cycle sign on it.
Where is that, please? After the junction?

Thanks

Jonathan
Yes there's one just after the junction so I'd assume the path on that side is all shared, and it's actually wider before the junction.

Edit -- but I do see this back up the road a bit -- must admit it doesn't fill me with confidence !
Screenshot_20230326-140744_Chrome.jpg
Also you could get a toot or two cycling past this junction although more clearly marked as a cycle lane I assume cos of it's width.
Screenshot_20230326-141021_Chrome.jpg
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jrs665
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Re: Left Turn And Busses

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Cowsham wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 1:53pm
Jdsk wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 10:47am
Cowsham wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 12:53am ...
Personally I'd use the shared use footpath on the left. There's a cycle sign on it.
Where is that, please? After the junction?

Thanks

Jonathan
Yes there's one just after the junction so I'd assume the path on that side is all shared, and it's actually wider before the junction.

Edit -- but I do see this back up the road a bit -- must admit it doesn't fill me with confidence !

Screenshot_20230326-140744_Chrome.jpg

Also you could get a toot or two cycling past this junction although more clearly marked as a cycle lane I assume cos of it's width.

Screenshot_20230326-141021_Chrome.jpg
The blue sign is not saying that there is a shared footpath, but a buslane on the road that buses, motorbikes, taxis and bicycles can use. There is a cycle lane on the road leading upto the junction ahead, this cycle lane continues after the junction.
Jdsk
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Re: Left Turn And Busses

Post by Jdsk »

jrs665 wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 3:34pm
Cowsham wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 1:53pm
Jdsk wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 10:47am
Where is that, please? After the junction?
Yes there's one just after the junction so I'd assume the path on that side is all shared, and it's actually wider before the junction.

Edit -- but I do see this back up the road a bit -- must admit it doesn't fill me with confidence !

Screenshot_20230326-140744_Chrome.jpg

Also you could get a toot or two cycling past this junction although more clearly marked as a cycle lane I assume cos of it's width.

Screenshot_20230326-141021_Chrome.jpg
The blue sign is not saying that there is a shared footpath, but a buslane on the road that buses, motorbikes, taxis and bicycles can use. There is a cycle lane on the road leading upto the junction ahead, this cycle lane continues after the junction.
I also see the sign after the junction as referring to a bus lane rather than a shared path. Full of cars in the StreetView.

Jonathan
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Cowsham
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Re: Left Turn And Busses

Post by Cowsham »

jrs665 wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 3:34pm
Cowsham wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 1:53pm
Jdsk wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 10:47am
Where is that, please? After the junction?

Thanks

Jonathan
Yes there's one just after the junction so I'd assume the path on that side is all shared, and it's actually wider before the junction.

Edit -- but I do see this back up the road a bit -- must admit it doesn't fill me with confidence !

Screenshot_20230326-140744_Chrome.jpg

Also you could get a toot or two cycling past this junction although more clearly marked as a cycle lane I assume cos of it's width.

Screenshot_20230326-141021_Chrome.jpg
The blue sign is not saying that there is a shared footpath, but a buslane on the road that buses, motorbikes, taxis and bicycles can use. There is a cycle lane on the road leading upto the junction ahead, this cycle lane continues after the junction.
No the one I refered to earlier was this one after the junction you were approaching.
Screenshot_20230326-154245_Chrome.jpg
That sign in the post you quoted is further back up the road and is as you say the one indicating the start of the shared roadway.
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Jdsk
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Re: Left Turn And Busses

Post by Jdsk »

Image

Yes, isn't that one for a cycle lane rather than a "shared use footpath"?

Jonathan
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jrs665
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Re: Left Turn And Busses

Post by jrs665 »

Jdsk wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 3:50pm Image

Yes, isn't that one for a cycle lane rather than a "shared use footpath"?

Jonathan
Yes, it is for a cycle lane on the road, there is also one leading upto the junction which continues after the junction at the picture
Last edited by jrs665 on 26 Mar 2023, 4:02pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cowsham
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Re: Left Turn And Busses

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Jdsk wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 3:50pm Image

Yes, isn't that one for a cycle lane rather than a "shared use footpath"?

Jonathan
If so it's very confusing with it being on the inside of the footpath -- I think the car drivers are a bit confused as well -- I didn't see the cycle lane cos there's so many cars parked on top of it. At least the sign before at previous junction showed the 4 types of vehicles allowed to be on the 'full width' lane. This one only shows cycles.
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Cowsham
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Re: Left Turn And Busses

Post by Cowsham »

jrs665 wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 3:58pm
Jdsk wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 3:50pm Image

Yes, isn't that one for a cycle lane rather than a "shared use footpath"?

Jonathan
Yes, it is for a cycle lane on the road, there is also one leading upto the junction which continues after the junction at the picture
I'd deem it too dangerous to use so I'd be on the footpath anyway -- illegal or not.
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Jdsk
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Re: Left Turn And Busses

Post by Jdsk »

Cowsham wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 4:01pm
Jdsk wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 3:50pm Image

Yes, isn't that one for a cycle lane rather than a "shared use footpath"?
If so it's very confusing with it being on the inside of the footpath -- I think the car drivers are a bit confused as well -- I didn't see the cycle lane cos there's so many cars parked on top of it. At least the sign before at previous junction showed the 4 types of vehicles allowed to be on the 'full width' lane. This one only shows cycles.
I don't see anything strange about that... it probably means cycles only.

And a different sign would be used to indicate a "shared use footpath".

Jonathan
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jrs665
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Re: Left Turn And Busses

Post by jrs665 »

Cowsham wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 4:03pm
jrs665 wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 3:58pm
Jdsk wrote: 26 Mar 2023, 3:50pm Image

Yes, isn't that one for a cycle lane rather than a "shared use footpath"?

Jonathan
Yes, it is for a cycle lane on the road, there is also one leading upto the junction which continues after the junction at the picture
I'd deem it too dangerous to use so I'd be on the footpath anyway -- illegal or not.
That would be awkward as no pedestrian crossing for the road on the left, or the road on the right
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