Nonsense. Why is a non powered cyclist any less of a non insured bl@@dy nuisance than a powered one?
As for bullying other less powerful users of shared use paths etc, also rubbish. Cyclists have been bullied off the roads due to the sheer size and weight of motorized vehicles. Not their speed. An ebike is only a few kilos heavier than a standard bike and no bigger. If that's your take on things, would you also take a dislike to 3 wheeled bikes and fully laden touring bikes?
The injuries sustained to a user or third party from an ebike rider are exactly the same as a 'normal' bike and as such the chances taken on such a bike are exactly the same.
The issue is idiots. Not the bikes.
People wanted to ban mountain bikes when they first came out because people were apparently riding through other people's back yards and tearing up bridleways. Common sense prevailed thankfully.
Please try to be a little more open minded.
Not pedalling
Re: Not pedalling
Bill
“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.
“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx
It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.
Re: Not pedalling
The current laws are a compromise. And they are crude.Nearholmer wrote: ↑26 Mar 2023, 9:33am For use on shared paths, any e-help needs to be limited to “human emulator” level, which the present e-bike laws attempt, rather crudely, to achieve.
But I share (!) that concern about what would happen if they were changed in a way that resulted in a lot more fast traffic in shared use spaces.
It would help if those who favour a change could state that desired change. There might be different responses if it were only about throttles and the need to pedal than about limits on speed for assistance or power of assistance.
Jonathan
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Re: Not pedalling
I said that the issue around being uninsured was a matter of low probability, so we probably aren’t that far apart on that point.
The shared use path issue isn’t about weight, after all a really heavy bloke on a bike is, well ….. heavy. It’s about capability, installed power effectively.
And, yes, of course it’s about the rider not the machine, after all, a very careful and responsible bod could possibly safely share a path while riding a Kawasaki Z750, but the proportion of the population who get a bit too carried away once they’ve got a powerful machine between their legs is sufficient to require restrictions.
Pretty well all restrictive laws exist to control the actions of what you term “idiots”, which in practice means that proportion of the population that at any moment is comfortable taking a lot of risks, is more or less selfish, and/or more or less aggressive. We wouldn’t need laws against murder, theft, carrying of weapons in public places, or a host of other things if everybody always played nicely together.
So, unless someone can come up with a mechanism to keep certain people, or even all people if they are in certain moods, off of shared paths, the best proxy is to limit the capability of the machines allowed on them.
We’ve been through this debate before incidentally, with petrol mopeds …,. The only difference this time round is that the electric ones aren’t noisy, and don’t trail a cloud of two-stroke exhaust.
The shared use path issue isn’t about weight, after all a really heavy bloke on a bike is, well ….. heavy. It’s about capability, installed power effectively.
And, yes, of course it’s about the rider not the machine, after all, a very careful and responsible bod could possibly safely share a path while riding a Kawasaki Z750, but the proportion of the population who get a bit too carried away once they’ve got a powerful machine between their legs is sufficient to require restrictions.
Pretty well all restrictive laws exist to control the actions of what you term “idiots”, which in practice means that proportion of the population that at any moment is comfortable taking a lot of risks, is more or less selfish, and/or more or less aggressive. We wouldn’t need laws against murder, theft, carrying of weapons in public places, or a host of other things if everybody always played nicely together.
So, unless someone can come up with a mechanism to keep certain people, or even all people if they are in certain moods, off of shared paths, the best proxy is to limit the capability of the machines allowed on them.
We’ve been through this debate before incidentally, with petrol mopeds …,. The only difference this time round is that the electric ones aren’t noisy, and don’t trail a cloud of two-stroke exhaust.
Last edited by Nearholmer on 26 Mar 2023, 10:16am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Not pedalling
Yes, it's about likely effects in the real world.Nearholmer wrote: ↑26 Mar 2023, 10:08am ...
The shared use path issue isn’t about weight, after all a really heavy bloke on a bike is, well ….. heavy. It’s about capability, installed power effectively.
And, yes, of course it’s about the rider not the machine, after all, a very careful and responsible bod could possibly safely share a path while riding a Kawasaki Z750, but the proportion of the population who get a bit too carried away once they’ve got a powerful machine between their legs is sufficient to require restrictions.
Pretty well all restrictive laws exist to control the actions of what you term “idiots”, which in practice means that proportion of the population that at any moment is comfortable taking a lot of risks, is more or less selfish, and/or more or less aggressive. We wouldn’t need laws against murder, theft, carrying of weapons in public places, or a host of other things if everybody always played nicely together.
So, unless someone can come up with a mechanism to keep certain people, or even all people if they are in certain moods, off of shared paths, the best proxy is to limit the capability of the machines allowed on them.
Jonathan
Re: Not pedalling
full throttle bikes can be fully legal in the uk if they have been type approved as :L1e vehicles, https://wisperbikes.com/full-throttle-option/
so the law isn't such an ass anymore!
so the law isn't such an ass anymore!
Re: Not pedalling
I think that technically they are still not type approved, but each bike still has to be independently approved.UpWrong wrote: ↑26 Mar 2023, 11:08am full throttle bikes can be fully legal in the uk if they have been type approved as :L1e vehicles, https://wisperbikes.com/full-throttle-option/
so the law isn't such an ass anymore!
(From my memory of a post by Wisper on the Pedelecs website; I could have misinterpreted it or remembered wrong.
They've arranged fairly small batch approval with a local testing station.)
Not that important, comes to pretty much the same thing for the end buyer.
Re: Not pedalling
You're right. Each bike gets approved and it costs another £200.stodd wrote: ↑26 Mar 2023, 1:25pmI think that technically they are still not type approved, but each bike still has to be independently approved.UpWrong wrote: ↑26 Mar 2023, 11:08am full throttle bikes can be fully legal in the uk if they have been type approved as :L1e vehicles, https://wisperbikes.com/full-throttle-option/
so the law isn't such an ass anymore!
(From my memory of a post by Wisper on the Pedelecs website; I could have misinterpreted it or remembered wrong.
They've arranged fairly small batch approval with a local testing station.)
Not that important, comes to pretty much the same thing for the end buyer.
Re: Not pedalling
They must have 1000W+ or very overworked controller boxes. Were they doing about 2 MPH?
We'll always be together, together on electric bikes.