BEVs

[Carlton green]

I'd be interested if you could find the source showing 10% every 5 years.

Manufacturers’ guarantees are about replacing things that they don't expect will need replacing.

Yes, it would be helpful to revisit that source but it eludes me - sometimes that’s the way these things go with surfing the web.

Guarantee’s are encouragements to buy but with such limitations as noted in my post they highlight poor durability.

From what I read (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new- ... te-ev-2028) and articles on Nissan’s own website solid state batteries are under development and should be in mass production during or by 2028. Solid state batteries should be a ‘game changer’, but whether, as a tight fisted older person who only buys older cars, I end up with one is anyone’s guess.

I’m inclined to think any future car (of mine) will be either petrol or current technology with a large battery (large such that after anticipated degradation it will still retain a useful enough range to allow regional journeys). Green issues aside the logical choice is to stay with petrol for as long as is practical - which is well beyond my current horizons and who knows when the grim reaper will call, etc. - but do we always make logical choices? Of course, factors that are quite important to one person might be less important to another and vice versa … and our priorities can change over time too.

[reohn2]

1.
BATTERY QUALITY GUARANTEE
i. 24 KWH LEAF : If the battery capacity level gauge of your 24 kWh Nissan Electric Vehicle falls below 9 bars (out of 12 bars) within 60,000 miles or the first 5 years of the vehicle’s life (whichever comes first), Nissan will repair or replace the damaged battery components free of charge to bring the capacity up to 9 bars.
ii. 30 KWH LEAF : If the battery capacity level gauge of your 30 kWh Nissan Electric Vehicle falls below 9 bars (out of 12 bars) within 100,000 miles or the first 8 years of the vehicle’s life (whichever comes first), Nissan will repair or replace the damaged battery components free of charge to bring the capacity up to 9 bars.
iii. 40 KWH LEAF : If the battery capacity level gauge of your 40 kWh Nissan Electric Vehicle falls below 9 bars (out of 12 bars) within 100,000 miles or the first 8 years of the vehicle’s life (whichever comes first), Nissan will repair or replace the damaged battery components free of charge to bring the capacity up to 9 bars.

Are those guarantees carried forward with the car to multiple owners or only apply to the original owner?

[Mike Sales]

I really think that in the near future we will have much bigger problems to think about, and decisions to make, than whether we can or should replace our IC cars with electric ones, without affecting our comfortable lifestyles too much.
Even in this rich country a sizeable minority do not have the convenience of any sort of car. Should we all have that amenity, and what would be the implications of that?

[Jdsk]

...
Even in this rich country a sizeable minority do not have the convenience of any sort of car. Should we all have that amenity, and what would be the implications of that?

Great point: how about adding it to the discussion of what should be in a National Transport Strategy?
viewtopic.php?t=155477

Jonathan

[[XAP]Bob]

1.
BATTERY QUALITY GUARANTEE
i. 24 KWH LEAF : If the battery capacity level gauge of your 24 kWh Nissan Electric Vehicle falls below 9 bars (out of 12 bars) within 60,000 miles or the first 5 years of the vehicle’s life (whichever comes first), Nissan will repair or replace the damaged battery components free of charge to bring the capacity up to 9 bars.
ii. 30 KWH LEAF : If the battery capacity level gauge of your 30 kWh Nissan Electric Vehicle falls below 9 bars (out of 12 bars) within 100,000 miles or the first 8 years of the vehicle’s life (whichever comes first), Nissan will repair or replace the damaged battery components free of charge to bring the capacity up to 9 bars.
iii. 40 KWH LEAF : If the battery capacity level gauge of your 40 kWh Nissan Electric Vehicle falls below 9 bars (out of 12 bars) within 100,000 miles or the first 8 years of the vehicle’s life (whichever comes first), Nissan will repair or replace the damaged battery components free of charge to bring the capacity up to 9 bars.

Are those guarantees carried forward with the car to multiple owners or only apply to the original owner?

Most are transferrable:

https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/car-technolo ... eries-last

I think that claiming EV makers expect capacity to drop by 30% over 8 years is complete hogwash though - that's their warranty, if they expected that to be the case then they're planning to replace half of all batteries under warranty - and that sounds rather unlikely.

A LiIon battery will do 2-3k cycles, a LiFePo up to 10k, Sodium batteries 5k+
A cycle on a BEV is generally gentle (because the BMS doesn't let you charge to 100% or discharge fully either). Tesla actually specifically enable an absolutely full 100% charge in areas with natural disasters incoming (like hurricanes) - I'd quite like the ability to select 100% charge a few times a year, get a little bit further on that first battery of long journeys.

[Biospace]

There's a reminder here that you need your wits about you when purchasing an EV, even from a main dealer. https://www.speakev.com/threads/yg18xfk ... ud.173915/

I would feel extremely vulnerable buying one without doing a lot of research into both the theory and real world of battery degradation, how to interrogate a battery, its management system and so on. I'm able to listen to a conventional engine and hear wear or incorrect running, whereas with BEVs it's a matter of using software. Even then, I'd want to drive one for at least 30% of its suggested range, to observe.

There could be a higher than average level of people taken in with car sales in coming years as people adjust to the new technology. Think back to the early days of ICEvs, when sawdust was used to quieten down tired rocker gear or gearboxes, eggs sealed leaking cooling systems and far too heavy oil was used to keep a worn out engine running a little longer.

[Jdsk]

There's a reminder here that you need your wits about you when purchasing an EV, even from a main dealer. https://www.speakev.com/threads/yg18xfk ... ud.173915/
...

That's an anonymous story in a web forum where the poster can't even document what he claims he was seeing on the monitoring software.

Jonathan

[Biospace]

That's an anonymous story in a web forum where the poster can't even document what he claims he was seeing on the monitoring software.

Jonathan

Do you really doubt its veracity? There's nothing at all which suggests to me anything is being made up.

[reohn2]

Most are transferrable:

https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/car-technolo ... eries-last

I think that claiming EV makers expect capacity to drop by 30% over 8 years is complete hogwash though - that's their warranty, if they expected that to be the case then they're planning to replace half of all batteries under warranty - and that sounds rather unlikely.

A LiIon battery will do 2-3k cycles, a LiFePo up to 10k, Sodium batteries 5k+
A cycle on a BEV is generally gentle (because the BMS doesn't let you charge to 100% or discharge fully either). Tesla actually specifically enable an absolutely full 100% charge in areas with natural disasters incoming (like hurricanes) - I'd quite like the ability to select 100% charge a few times a year, get a little bit further on that first battery of long journeys.

Thanks for that Bob.

I have heard a few stories of BEVs not not reaching anywhere near their manufacturers promised ranges especially on motorway driving.I've no links only hearsay.
As Biospace says I'd need a LOT more persuading before buying even if one did fulfil my motoring needs, which they don't presently.

[Jdsk]

That's an anonymous story in a web forum where the poster can't even document what he claims he was seeing on the monitoring software.

Do you really doubt its veracity? There's nothing at all which suggests to me anything is being made up.

I can't assess its veracity: it's an anonymous story in a web forum where the poster can't even document what he claims he was seeing on the monitoring software.

But I've seen many stories about disagreements and regretted purchases which turn out to be something less than the whole truth.

Jonathan

[Biospace]

Do you really doubt its veracity? There's nothing at all which suggests to me anything is being made up.

I can't assess its veracity: it's an anonymous story in a web forum where the poster can't even document what he claims he was seeing on the monitoring software.

But I've seen many stories about disagreements and regretted purchases which turn out to be something less than the whole truth.

Jonathan

We can all assess the veracity of plenty of what we encounter day to day, including online content. While there are doubtless a very few, odd individuals who will post a false story to a website or those who fabricate or exaggerate due to buyer's remorse, I'd suggest they are outnumbered by many, many times by people who are seeking genuine advice.

As I say, from what I've read, there's nothing to suggest anything is not as described in that particular story. Cars do develop faults in use, even batteries in EVs.

[Jdsk]

That's an anonymous story in a web forum where the poster can't even document what he claims he was seeing on the monitoring software.

That was about the original description. There is a better video of what he was describing several pages into the thread.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

That's an anonymous story in a web forum where the poster can't even document what he claims he was seeing on the monitoring software.

Do you really doubt its veracity? There's nothing at all which suggests to me anything is being made up.

I can't assess its veracity: it's an anonymous story in a web forum where the poster can't even document what he claims he was seeing on the monitoring software.

But I've seen many stories about disagreements and regretted purchases which turn out to be something less than the whole truth.

To save anyone else reading 12 pages... the car was returned and the purchase price repaid less an allowance for mileage, which was paid by the credit card company.

The story is from December 2022. The car is currently taxed and has an MoT certificate.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

There's a reminder here that you need your wits about you when purchasing an EV, even from a main dealer. https://www.speakev.com/threads/yg18xfk ... ud.173915/

The car is described as a Nissan Leaf. I don't think that it was bought from a Nissan "main dealer"?

Jonathan

[Biospace]

And the customer was very concerned that it wasn't going to be returned for sale without being properly repaired. It seems that 'faulty' battery condition is something of a grey area when it comes to used BEV sales, whereas if you buy a 'normal' car with an engine fault/fuelling problem, it is regarded as unfit for purpose until rectified.