What's this tool ?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
rjb
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What's this tool ?

Post by rjb »

My friend showed me his tool box labelled bike tools he inherited from his father in law who was a keen cyclist back in the 1950's
I recognised the usual array of spanners, chain tools, tyre levers, spoke keys etc but couldn't make out what this was for. Perhaps its meant for forming spoke heads? Its labelled with the maker's name "Buck"
So over to the collective for ideas.
IMG_20230328_103806.jpg
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
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531colin
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Re: What's this tool ?

Post by 531colin »

Its a die.
One showed up on "antiques roadshow" recently....but on the telly you could see the thread-forming grooves in the holes
Jdsk
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Re: What's this tool ?

Post by Jdsk »

A screw thread gauge?
https://www.tooltique.co.uk/shop/antiqu ... rs-tool-2/

...

Colin: How would you distinguish a former from a gauge? The long handle might favour the former... ?

Thanks

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 28 Mar 2023, 3:24pm, edited 1 time in total.
rjb
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Re: What's this tool ?

Post by rjb »

Thanks Colin,
i tried to peer down the holes in the block but couldn't make out a thread in there. Years of grime probably obscuring things. Ill borrow it and see how i get on on some rustless spokes. i expect current stainless ones would be too hard for such a tool.
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
Barrowman
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Re: What's this tool ?

Post by Barrowman »

I think a die too. If it was a gauge here would be no need for the slots that allow the cut metal from cutting the thread to disperse, and there would be no need for the long handle for leverage.
They said a very similar thing was a die on the Antiques Roadshow , only a few days ago.
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531colin
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Re: What's this tool ?

Post by 531colin »

Jdsk wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 3:18pm A screw thread gauge?
https://www.tooltique.co.uk/shop/antiqu ... rs-tool-2/

...

Colin: How would you distinguish a former from a gauge? The long handle might favour the former... ?

Thanks

Jonathan
As barrowman says, if its just a gauge, then you don't need the slots which discharge the swarf produced by cutting the threads.
I have only seen the "penknife" type thread gauges; you offer up the gauge to the subject thread, and look for daylight between gauge and subject.....however here https://www.shutterstock.com/search/thr ... Fsearch%2F....they show both the penknife type and (modern) bolt type gauges....again, so you can look for daylight between gauge and subject.....that covers not only pitch but thread form....angles, etc.
Jdsk
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Re: What's this tool ?

Post by Jdsk »

Thanks, both.

Jonathan
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531colin
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Re: What's this tool ?

Post by 531colin »

rjb wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 3:23pm Thanks Colin,
i tried to peer down the holes in the block but couldn't make out a thread in there. Years of grime probably obscuring things. Ill borrow it and see how i get on on some rustless spokes. i expect current stainless ones would be too hard for such a tool.
Can you make out any markings next to the holes?
As is often the case, I'm struggling with memory....long ago I had a tandem which I couldn't stop; I got a Honda 50 front hub from a breakers yard, to lace the hub into a rim, which might have been 27" rather than 700c!
The hub had huge spoke holes, and the only spokes I could source were vintage Ariel motorcycle ones, possibly 13 gauge.....produced as "blanks" to hand thread to length using a die, and the nipples were also "specials".....because most spokes have rolled threads, and the "cut" thread is smaller for the same gauge spoke.
Next time I had it to bits I simply drilled new holes between the existing ones in the flanges and used bike spokes.....a much better solution!

Might be a bit big for spokes?
rjb
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Re: What's this tool ?

Post by rjb »

There were no obvious marks adjacent to the holes but the photo shows some scratches which may possibly be numbers. With so many "eyes" would one rotate in sequence through groups of holes when thread cutting, each one being slightly smaller like a 1st cut, 2nd cut, 3rd cut die.
When I get chance to see it again I'll clean it up and see if it reveals anything.
I just watched the antiques road show where one was shown last Sunday. It's a small world. :D
I have to say that when I first saw it this morning it was difficult to even read the makers name Buck , but the photo reveals a lot more detail. I'm intrigued by those horizontal bars with dots at the ends, they must have some significance and only 3 bars but 11 holes? :?
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
simonhill
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Re: What's this tool ?

Post by simonhill »

Is it BUCK?

Zoom in and it could be BUeH.
Barrowman
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Re: What's this tool ?

Post by Barrowman »

I think they will be different threads rather than progressions of one thread. (There might be pairs?)
However, with larger threads (I have recently been extending a Headset / steering column thread) the die has a slot and the die carrier can be adjusted so in effect you can do a 'rough cut' and a tighter one.
Only way you can really tell in the absence of markings that can be read is by cutting some threads .

BUCH?

If you google BUCH you get a foreign toolmaker.
iandusud
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Re: What's this tool ?

Post by iandusud »

Intriguing! The only threads on a bike that are that small are spoke threads but as Colin has pointed out these are traditionally rolled. Also if one were to attempt to cut a thread on a 14g spoke I think it would be quite difficult to hold the spoke blank without it twisting. My guess is that it for cleaning up spoke threads.
rjb
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Re: What's this tool ?

Post by rjb »

Mate brought it around again and we tried a 14g spoke in the biggest holes. It was a tight fit but went in without too much effort. Several of the holes were for a much finer thread than a spoke so it's more likely to be a clockmakers tool we think. We assumed it was in the box of cycle tools as an emergency addition to increase the thread length on a spoke.
Definitely marked Buck. With a H above. :D
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
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Sum
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Re: What's this tool ?

Post by Sum »

This was described as an "unusual Victorian tool signed Buck" on the reemandansie.com website. The auctioneers clearly couldn't tell that it was to cut threads (unlike the person on the Antiques Roadshow)
Image
https://www.reemandansie.com/auction/lo ... ?lot=88781
Jdsk
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Re: What's this tool ?

Post by Jdsk »

That one looks very similar to these:
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collectio ... BIOG252099

Large screw plate

Steel plate, narrowing to one end. Each of the thinner ends are curved. At the wider end is a handle, of circular cross section and with a teardrop shaped finial.
On the plate are 20 threaded holes of graded size, each having two adjoining smaller unthreaded holes..

A steel plate with a number of graduated threaded holes used for making screw threads by forcing a rod through the threaded hole. Usually the thread is formed by deforming the rod rather than cutting material away, however some screw-plates do have cutting edges and clearance holes.


Jonathan
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