Saddle Surface Material

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doffcocker
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Saddle Surface Material

Post by doffcocker »

I'd just like to understand a few things in terms of saddle designs and how they could be effecting me out on the road.

I've noticed on a few longer journeys recently that regardless of fit/reach/position, the impact I feel from my current saddle is very different to that of my previous bike, despite that they appear to me very similar in shape and size.

(Let's call the seat from my previous bike Saddle 1, and that from my current bike Saddle 2.)

Now let me explain the key difference.

Saddle 1 - Apologies if this causes as much wincing to read as it did to type, but I always had some saddle sore or other, mainly in the guiche (perineum?) area. But the thing is they didn't really bother me. They weren't painful, I wouldn't even say they ever caused me much discomfort, they were just there (visible to very few if any of course), and came and went. They were a hindrance in no way shape or form.

Saddle 2 - Perfectly comfortable until I get past the 20/30 mile mark when I start to feel chafing at the lower bumcheeks (sorry).
I don't think I've had a single sore from this saddle, just this really uncomfortable sensation after a long (worse when hilly) ride, and I would consider it a big hindrance, particularly when we get into summer when I'd like to be pushing past the 60 miles at a time.

As quite a novice, my theory is the difference in seat friction.
I don't know if you'd class Saddle 1 as leather exactly but it's clearly easier to slide against without causing clothes to rub against the skin.

Does that sound fair or are there other factors?

I have attached pictures of both saddles (the bottom three are Saddle 1, top two Saddle 2). I trust you don't need any of me and the affected areas.

Thanks.
Attachments
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Jdsk
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Re: Saddle Surface Material

Post by Jdsk »

Yes, guiche = perineum, but I've only heard it used for piercings.

No need to be embarrassed.

I'm not convinced that there's a design of saddle or measurement or fitting procedure that will suit everybody.

I'd encourage you to keep swapping and adjusting and experimenting until there's no damage and no pain.

Jonathan

PS: What do you wear on the area of interest?
Barrowman
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Re: Saddle Surface Material

Post by Barrowman »

I suspect that saddle 2 is pointing uphill slightly more than saddle 1.
Really need photos of the 2 bikes in the same position and taken at the same angle.
And 2 does seem slightly broader where it goes from narrow to wide. 1 might be a bit more pliable.
You have a plastic cover over padding over a solid core (I believe)
Saddle 2 seems to have less padding but hard to tell from photos. May be more pliable than 1 .
Give them a bit of a probe with your fingers.
I'd try padded undies or cycling shorts . And perhaps a gently smear of Savlon or similar in the prone area.
Or swap the Saddles over and see if it makes a difference.
Is the distance from saddle to bars the same in both bikes?
Dyed in the world cyclists generally have leather Saddles which get 'broken in' to a body shape, and often move from bike to bike under the same owner.
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531colin
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Re: Saddle Surface Material

Post by 531colin »

I started cycling "seriously" in the early sixties, when ordinary working people couldn't afford much more than the basics.....and as a schoolboy, I couldn't really even afford the basics......
Back then, touring cyclists wore what we had in the cupboard, which was a pair of khaki cotton shorts and cotton underpants.....and if you were lucky, your grandmother would knit you a jumper in club colours for your Christmas present.
The saving grace was that saddles were leather; any softness came from the saddle top being suspended like a hammock, and the surface was slippery so it didn't rub and chafe your legs.

Recently i had to ditch my old leather saddles, and now all my bikes have these https://www.sellesmp.com/en/saddles/tre ... edium.html.....which are comfortable .....apart from the surface material, which is "grippy"
.....So, instead of my shorts sliding over the saddle, my shorts are "stuck" to the saddle and movement (and friction!) occurs between my shorts and my legs.
I have fixed this by covering all my saddles in thin leather; normal service is resumed!
To find out if a "grippy" saddle surface is a problem, get a decent thick stretchy T shirt and tie it over the saddle like an extra cover; when you ride the bike your shorts will slide over the T shirt, without friction between your shorts and legs.

(I don't understand why people these days have to wear a nappy and slather their backsides in gloop just to ride a bit further than round the block.....but then there is an awful lot about modern life which I don't understand... :wink: .)
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CyberKnight
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Re: Saddle Surface Material

Post by CyberKnight »

I have to agree with the above posts , your new saddle looks like it flatter and narrower plus looking at the photo it does seem to be pointing up a lot compared to the older one.
You do have both saddles really well back on the rails and i wonder if that is by choice ? a wrongly positioned saddle can cause many issues , i used to get saddle sores till someone pointed out my knee was tracking in and out which was caused by the wrong saddle height ,Dropping 5 mm in my case solved my issues .having a saddle that is too far back can also increase effective saddle height .
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mattsccm
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Re: Saddle Surface Material

Post by mattsccm »

Unless they are identical then surely it is the difference that is your problem. if there is more than one difference then you have to eliminate one at a time. Consider the fact that even a batch may differ from another so comparing different models, makers or ages is somewhat daft. Do what most of us do. Keep swapping until you find the perfect fit. Or buy a Brooks and wait for it to become the perfect fit :D
mig
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Re: Saddle Surface Material

Post by mig »

are the two saddles ridden on the two different bikes in the pictures?
Bmblbzzz
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Re: Saddle Surface Material

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Why not swap the saddles around for a month or so and see what happens?
axel_knutt
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Re: Saddle Surface Material

Post by axel_knutt »

I'm with Colin. It's not something I've had a problem with, but it seems self-evident to me that if there's enough friction to prevent movement between saddle and shorts, then it'll occur between shorts and bum instead. Lycra is smooth and shiny, 'chamois' isn't.
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Vorpal
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Re: Saddle Surface Material

Post by Vorpal »

I think these things are to some extent, personal.

The saddles appear to be on different bikes, so I will offer the following from personal experience:
1) a slightly more upright position (like the difference between my touring and road bikes) means more weight on the saddle & a slightly different saddle requirement. I expect this difference is related to why the places that measure the sit-bone distance (Bontrager, Specialized) recommend slightly narrower saddles for road bikes than for more upright bikes.

2)I have yet to come across a leather saddle that has a shape that suits me. I prefer Serfas saddles, and I have one that is grippy & 2 that aren't & both types are comfortable. A very slippery saddle, like a Brooks doesn't work for me at all. I am the most comfortable on my tourer with a Serfas RX saddle. I normally wear cycling shorts / longs, but this is mainly due to the fact that if I have seams, such as from underwear or most street clothes, I tend to have a problem with chafing. I can wear underthings that have no seams in the saddle area. For example, I have a couple of pairs of merino undershorts that are okay with running tights, light trousers or something else without thick seams over them.

3) Relatively small differences in position, front to back or tilt, can make a surprisingly big difference in how I interact with the saddle. My daughter's bike, which is an upright, Dutch style bike has a sort of ratchet for positioning the saddle tilt & I cannot get that in exactly the right position for me. It's only a few mm off where I want it, but it's enough that I think it would be uncomfortable on a long distance ride. I only ever use it short distances, but I did use for longer distances, I'd replace the saddle mounting system.
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geocycle
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Re: Saddle Surface Material

Post by geocycle »

Anecdote time, for that is all we really have with saddles. I prefer a slippy saddle surface although you have to get the angle just right to avoid fighting with it all the ride. For me this is Brooks which will not suite everyone. It took a thousand miles or so for my backside to break in (the saddle doesn't change that much). I found that slightly raising the nose kept me in the right place but I could still move around easily. After a few years I realised that saddle sores tended to be related to getting hot and sweaty so I ditched the padded shorts and focussed on cleanliness. Touch wood, I've not had a problem in that department since. Everyone is different of course.
Barrowman
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Re: Saddle Surface Material

Post by Barrowman »

Just to muddy the Brooks water further ,there are lots of different Brooks Saddles. My current go to is a B17 Narrow. They do a B17 Standard too, which I can't get in with . My favourites are B15 and B17 cutaways but they are very expensive these days . There's Professionals, Colts, Pre Softened Saddles , "Short Saddles " (often stated for ladies) etc etc .Saddles with coil springs at the back. People do sometimes spend lots of money chasing the ideal saddle.
I think I agree with the last poster that sweat can be an issue in the affected area and keeping it all clean .
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531colin
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Re: Saddle Surface Material

Post by 531colin »

Vorpal wrote: 29 Mar 2023, 11:12am I think these things are to some extent, personal.

The saddles appear to be on different bikes, so I will offer the following from personal experience:
1) a slightly more upright position (like the difference between my touring and road bikes) means more weight on the saddle & a slightly different saddle requirement. I expect this difference is related to why the places that measure the sit-bone distance (Bontrager, Specialized) recommend slightly narrower saddles for road bikes than for more upright bikes.
On a bike saddle, you sit on the ischio-pubic rami. There is an interesting 3D animation here https://anatomytool.org/content/3d-model-pelvis.....unfortunately I can't seem to find the labels, but the number "3" appears on the ischiac tubercle, which is the lump you sit on in a chair....the ischio-pubic rami are the things shaped like rocking chair rockers which are forward of this, and which converge as you go forwards; so the bits of bone you sit on are closer together as you lean forward. ....this is the usual explanation for the narrower saddle on racing bikes with a forward-leaning position.
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531colin
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Re: Saddle Surface Material

Post by 531colin »

Vorpal wrote: 29 Mar 2023, 11:12am .............
3) Relatively small differences in position, front to back or tilt, can make a surprisingly big difference in how I interact with the saddle. My daughter's bike, which is an upright, Dutch style bike has a sort of ratchet for positioning the saddle tilt & I cannot get that in exactly the right position for me. It's only a few mm off where I want it, but it's enough that I think it would be uncomfortable on a long distance ride. I only ever use it short distances, but I did use for longer distances, I'd replace the saddle mounting system.
It shouldn't be necessary to buy new bits, if the existing ones are intelligently designed.

With a straight seatpost and Brooks type saddle clamp https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/saddles/bro ... il-byb101/ ....if you dis-assemble the clamp and turn the bit which goes round the seatpost upside-down, it should make a change so that a "new" saddle inclination is half-way in between 2 of the original saddle inclinations.

On a post like this one https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/seat-posts/ ... m-x-264mm/....with serrations between the post and the cradle which supports the saddle wires, if you turn the cradle 180 degrees it should do the same, ie make a new position half way between 2 old ones.
however. I once bought a similar seatpost where the cradle was made symmetrical so reversing it made no difference. i wrote to the suppliers telling them i knew 3 ways to make the angle adjustment better...
Make the teeth smaller is the worst option; smaller teeth are fragile
Make the cradle so that reversing it halves the existing inclinations
make the radius of the arc greater, so the same size teeth give a smaller angle change on a larger circle

but of course they knew better, and sent me an exactly similar post "as a goodwill gesture"

.....or you can file an alloy cradle, or bend the saddle wires....or shim the wires in the cradle....
Vorpal
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Re: Saddle Surface Material

Post by Vorpal »

531colin wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 9:22pm
With a straight seatpost and Brooks type saddle clamp https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/saddles/bro ... il-byb101/ ....if you dis-assemble the clamp and turn the bit which goes round the seatpost upside-down, it should make a change so that a "new" saddle inclination is half-way in between 2 of the original saddle inclinations.
Thanks for that. The bike does have that type of clamp. I didn't realise I could fix it by putting it upside down.

I haven't honestly spent much time on it, partly because I don't use it much, and partly because I didn't want to cause problems for my daughter who does.
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