Cycle Touring or Travelling by Bike? Travel Insurance.

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
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simonhill
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Cycle Touring or Travelling by Bike? Travel Insurance.

Post by simonhill »

Thinking here about the discrimination in some travel insurance policies against cycle touring.

Is cycle touring so special or are we just using a bicycle as our prime means of transport.

I've not seen any travel insurance that specifies what sort of transport you use, apart from restricting a few higher risk exceptions: eg over 125cc motorbike; non commercial planes; etc. Whereas a bicycle is a commonly used means of transport the world over.

Why shouldn't you use a bicycle as your primary means of transport. I go from A to B, but due to speed, stop at A1, A2 , etc. What is so different from travelling by any other means of transport.

I can't see it being accepted or even allowed if it was a restriction in any other insurance policy. Sorry no life insurance because you cycle to work!

Is a bicycle any more dangerous than a tuk tuk; or sitting in the back of an open pick up; or a night bus with a driver who is spaced out on amphetamines to keep him awake.

Maybe it's us who are a bit precious about 'cycle touring' as a thing. You never hear people saying they are going on holiday and using their bike.

Is it time we challenged insurance companies.

Thoughts?
Psamathe
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Re: Cycle Touring or Travelling by Bike? Travel Insurance.

Post by Psamathe »

simonhill wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 4:58am ...
Is it time we challenged insurance companies.

Thoughts?
I would agree but how does one "challenge" an insurance company other than by taking business elsewhere (where you'd also be paying for a higher level of cover and higher premium).

If there were any companies that included Cycle Touring as part of their standard basic cover then we could all use that company but even then other companies would probably not notice the loss of business to a competitor.

Current non-cycling travels I'm using a different company (which was best quote) and they have 8 groupings of cover for different sports, they put cycle touring in their group 2 https://www.sportscoverdirect.com/sport ... ps?group=2 - the list shows other activities it puts in the same (and other) groups and is interesting e.g. it puts "Pheasant shooting (at organised events)" in the same group as Cycle Touring. For 1 month in EU, going from their group 0 to group 2 took the premium from £46 to £81 - a significant increase.

Ian
Steve X
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Re: Cycle Touring or Travelling by Bike? Travel Insurance.

Post by Steve X »

We are moving from Sportscover Direct to LV, due to the move to Class 2.

To challenge Simons assertion of discrimination*, LV just say Cycling, and are specific about activities they do have an issue with, and when helmets must be worn, so is this a case of over thinking?

*yes the word some was used, and Sportscover Direct are, but do many Insurance companies?
simonhill
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Re: Cycle Touring or Travelling by Bike? Travel Insurance.

Post by simonhill »

As far as I know, no travel insurance policies ever mention touring by car, or bus, or train. Let alone putting them in a higher category.

They single out bikes, that's discrimination.
Jdsk
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Re: Cycle Touring or Travelling by Bike? Travel Insurance.

Post by Jdsk »

Psamathe wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 5:47am
simonhill wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 4:58am ...
Is it time we challenged insurance companies.

Thoughts?
I would agree but how does one "challenge" an insurance company other than by taking business elsewhere (where you'd also be paying for a higher level of cover and higher premium).

If there were any companies that included Cycle Touring as part of their standard basic cover then we could all use that company but even then other companies would probably not notice the loss of business to a competitor.
Competitive forces would work better if consumers joined forces.

Beyond that there is campaigning. And that has resulted in changes by insurers, occasionally by regulation but more often through codes of practice.

Jonathan
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matt2matt2002
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Re: Cycle Touring or Travelling by Bike? Travel Insurance.

Post by matt2matt2002 »

simonhill wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 11:20am As far as I know, no travel insurance policies ever mention touring by car, or bus, or train. Let alone putting them in a higher category.

They single out bikes, that's discrimination.
I suspect they perceive cycling as riskier than a car or train? It must be all about the risk factor.
They run their business on the basis of taking more in premiums than paying out, surely?

Not saying that they are correct. Just trying to understand where they are coming from.

Know your enemy, before engaging ......

Pleased to hear others thoughts.

Matt
2017 Ethiopia.5 weeks.
2018 Marrakech 2 weeks.
2023 Thailand 8 weeks.
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Jdsk
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Re: Cycle Touring or Travelling by Bike? Travel Insurance.

Post by Jdsk »

I don't think that it helps to talk about this as "discrimination" (with one exception).

Insurers inevitably categorise in order to remain solvent, as upthread. Sometimes regulators should intervene when the categorisation is thought to be harmful. One example is the agreement not to ask if applicants had ever had a test for HIV: the effect of that might have been to deter individuals from being tested, which would have put others at risk. Another is the EU's prohibition on using gender in setting the premium for motor insurance.

The exception is in campaigning.

Jonathan
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matt2matt2002
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Re: Cycle Touring or Travelling by Bike? Travel Insurance.

Post by matt2matt2002 »

I think it would help if we could have an actuary comment on this.

Actuary, one who calculates insurance risks and premiums. Actuaries compute the probability of the occurrence of various contingencies of human life, such as birth, marriage, sickness, unemployment, accidents, retirement, and death. They also evaluate the hazards of property damage or loss and the legal liability for the safety and well-being of others.

Anyone know one?
2017 Ethiopia.5 weeks.
2018 Marrakech 2 weeks.
2023 Thailand 8 weeks.
Always on a Thorn Raven/Rohloff hub.
RobinS
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Re: Cycle Touring or Travelling by Bike? Travel Insurance.

Post by RobinS »

The issue with travel insurance for cycling I think is that "cycle travelling" for an insurance company is very difficult to distinguish from cycling as a sport. For example, when does riding an off-road unsurfaced trail become mountain biking? Mountain biking ranges from pretty safe to extremely risky. How do they distinguish bimbling up Mont Ventoux on your tourer from racing up and down it against a bunch a roadie mates (and the descent can be pretty risky!) Having done lots of what are nowadays considered extreme sports I am just thankful that cycletouring is still considered one of the less risky sports - on a 90 day policy it impacts the premium far less than our pre-existing medical conditions. Also - we had exactly the same issues with sail cruising - it's a form of transport, but also a sport, in the same way that backpacking is - so there is no specific discrimination against cycling, it is just seen as a sport.
st599_uk
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Re: Cycle Touring or Travelling by Bike? Travel Insurance.

Post by st599_uk »

RobinS wrote: 29 Mar 2023, 10:47am The issue with travel insurance for cycling I think is that "cycle travelling" for an insurance company is very difficult to distinguish from cycling as a sport. For example, when does riding an off-road unsurfaced trail become mountain biking? Mountain biking ranges from pretty safe to extremely risky. How do they distinguish bimbling up Mont Ventoux on your tourer from racing up and down it against a bunch a roadie mates (and the descent can be pretty risky!) Having done lots of what are nowadays considered extreme sports I am just thankful that cycletouring is still considered one of the less risky sports - on a 90 day policy it impacts the premium far less than our pre-existing medical conditions. Also - we had exactly the same issues with sail cruising - it's a form of transport, but also a sport, in the same way that backpacking is - so there is no specific discrimination against cycling, it is just seen as a sport.
I once saw a travel policy that included Sail Cruising (up to 400m offshore) - I did point out that was where the rocks usually were.

The Cycling UK policy seems to cover cycle touring now - it didn't when I looked a couple of years ago.

My Admiralty policy states: Cycling (excluding racing and extreme terrain) is covered.
A novice learning...
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RobinS
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Re: Cycle Touring or Travelling by Bike? Travel Insurance.

Post by RobinS »

st599_uk wrote: 29 Mar 2023, 11:00am I once saw a travel policy that included Sail Cruising (up to 400m offshore) - I did point out that was where the rocks usually were.
We used to have a get a policy that covered sailing up to 10 miles offshore - it was one category up from cycling then. For hut to hut walking in the Alps and Dolomites, it was higher still, and once glacier travel, rock climbing and alpine mountaineering was included we were only one step below full on Himalayan expedition insurance.

As a couple who have done these sports, and with pre-existing medical conditions, as well as long trips, insurance has been a real issue for us over the years. The best policies for outdoor activities seem poor for medical conditions and vice-versa. I have got used to spending hours on the phone to get the cover we need, fairly minimal - we don't need cancellation, possessions or anything like that, just medical, accident, repatriation.
simonhill
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Re: Cycle Touring or Travelling by Bike? Travel Insurance.

Post by simonhill »

On reflection, I don't see how travel insurance companies can even begin to work out the risk as they don't have any idea of how many touring cyclists use their policies.

I have never had to declare I am a cyclist, despite that being my almost exclusive use of these policies for the last 25 years X multiple long haul trips. Has anyone else. My age and demographic would probably have me lying on a beach in Toremolinos or propping up a bar in Pattaya.

Maybe they extrapolate from statistics eg CUK surveys but that is pretty hit and miss.

The first they would know was when a touring cyclist made a claim. That would make working out the risk impossible - 1 claim amongst how many.
ANTONISH
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Re: Cycle Touring or Travelling by Bike? Travel Insurance.

Post by ANTONISH »

My GHIC top up insurance covers Cycling ( touring not BMX stunt riding).

My partner's Post Office policy covers Cycling ( touring, BMX riding with two symbols indicating that they are not covered).

I THINK my policy covers me for cycle touring but my partner's policy doesn't cover her.
I THINK that both of us are covered for going for a one day cycle ride from a fixed location

Despite the many pages of conditions there is very little clarification about exclusions. Cycle touring is a very grey area.

I'm going to attempt to get clarification but getting to speak to a human being with the knowledge and authority to get a definite answer may mean many hours listening to someone else's choice of music. :(
I think in the end I need to find a policy that definitely covers cycle touring.

The problem I find with travel insurance is that there never seems to be a means of entering what your holiday activity will be.
I'm 81 - in all the years of cycle touring I've never been so uncertain of my insurance cover.
Angstrom
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Re: Cycle Touring or Travelling by Bike? Travel Insurance.

Post by Angstrom »

I don't know the reason behind this pricing policy, but pure guess: travelling by car, car insurance that covers risks on the road is compulsory. That insurance would pay for indemnification of such risks. Not the case with cycle touring.
"A cycle tourist doesn't have a track record. Just memories". Jean Taboureau
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