Wheelbuilding - is it me or what?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
PT1029
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Re: Wheelbuilding - is it me or what?

Post by PT1029 »

+1 for leaving it to the wheel builder/shop to get the correct spokes.
Also +1 for variation in ERD rim measurements and spoke calculators differing.

However, a lot of Gazelles use 13g spokes (as do Pashley). Most shops will (should) have no end of variants/lenghts of 14g spokes, but very few 13g spokes as historically their use is fairly limited against 14g spokes.
When ever I looked into 13g spokes, suppy was scant (may be I looked in the wrong place of course!).

You could of course expect the shop to have more spokes types/lemgths/guages/colour. In the 1990's/2000's the shop I worked in had 14g, double butted 14/16g, some single butted 13/14, probably a few 13g, a few 15/16g in variously galvanised and stainless, mostly silver but black ones creeping in as well. At stock taking time the spokes generally came in a £7000 - 8000.

Some of the above spokes may never be used, I have some boxes of the above mentioned spokes, now with their 3rd business sitting idly on a shelf along side the now more fashionable/commonly used lengths.
rareposter
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Re: Wheelbuilding - is it me or what?

Post by rareposter »

PT1029 wrote: 1 Apr 2023, 7:42am +1 for leaving it to the wheel builder/shop to get the correct spokes.
Also +1 for variation in ERD rim measurements and spoke calculators differing.
Yep, I think Gazelle have (for whatever reason) supplied the wrong spokes - maybe they thought it was a different model of hub or rim, maybe they supplied non-drive instead of drive, who knows.

You and the shop have (quite naturally) assumed they were correct, the shop has only found out that they're not at point of fitting them and they're now stuck with either doing a time-consuming process of cutting them down and rolling new thread or sourcing the correct spokes.
rogerzilla
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Re: Wheelbuilding - is it me or what?

Post by rogerzilla »

Another obscure use case that catches out spoke calculators is non-interlaced spokes. Interlacing tends to average out inside and outside spoke lengths because they bend around each other. On non-interlaced wheels, the heads-out spokes often take a shorter path to the rim than the heads-in spokes. It's worse in small wheels - the ones least likely to be interlaced - and if the flanges of the hub are flat; ideally, flanges have a dish shape to point towards the rim holes.
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531colin
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Re: Wheelbuilding - is it me or what?

Post by 531colin »

rareposter wrote: 1 Apr 2023, 1:15pm ............
You and the shop have (quite naturally) assumed they were correct, the shop has only found out that they're not at point of fitting them ....
For a customer to assume that a supplier has sent them the correct parts is forgivable.
Somebody who calls themselves a wheelbuilder should know to check that they have the right spokes in their hand before they start the job......I imagine that the individual concerned in this fiasco will do this in future.
MikeF
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Re: Wheelbuilding - is it me or what?

Post by MikeF »

I'm curious to know how a trued wheel with properly tensioned spokes can have 5 slightly bent spokes.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
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531colin
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Re: Wheelbuilding - is it me or what?

Post by 531colin »

MikeF wrote: 6 Apr 2023, 9:21pm I'm curious to know how a trued wheel with properly tensioned spokes can have 5 slightly bent spokes.
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MikeF
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Re: Wheelbuilding - is it me or what?

Post by MikeF »

Hmm! I see. But I'm not sure why the wheel is still true. What are the merits of that spoke pattern?
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
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531colin
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Re: Wheelbuilding - is it me or what?

Post by 531colin »

MikeF wrote: 7 Apr 2023, 8:26pm Hmm! I see. But I'm not sure why the wheel is still true. What are the merits of that spoke pattern?
Some spokes have a minor kink due to contact with a nurses lock. ....why wouldn't the wheel be true?
I suspect the merit of that spoke pattern is it looks different, or it looks like somebody thought about it. In the real world i suspect that cracking from one drilling to the next is more likely than it needs to be, because some of the drillings are closer together than they need to be.
I can't remember how (Campag?) spaced their "triplet spoking" wheels, where the spokes were in threes, two to the driveside and one to the non-drive....but they did a similar thing in the "matched" front wheels, which for a symmetrical rim brake front wheel is barmy.
MikeF
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Re: Wheelbuilding - is it me or what?

Post by MikeF »

My thoughts were that 5 spokes were effectively shortened.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
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531colin
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Re: Wheelbuilding - is it me or what?

Post by 531colin »

MikeF wrote: 9 Apr 2023, 10:11am My thoughts were that 5 spokes were effectively shortened.
5 spokes shortened by I guess less than a millimetre?
Probably not enough to pull a big rim like that out of round, or not enough to see the out of round.
MikeF
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Re: Wheelbuilding - is it me or what?

Post by MikeF »

OK. Seems accuracy of measurement is the "clue"
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
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531colin
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Re: Wheelbuilding - is it me or what?

Post by 531colin »

No measurement involved as far as I can tell. If you read the original thread, OP shows 5 slightly bent spokes all in a line, but he hadn't taken the wheel out, or the tyre off the rear wheel on a great heavy e bike.....disc brakes too, so there is no brake block to act as a pointer.
I wouldn't expect much effect from 5 slightly bent spokes on a wheel with a big wide stiff rim.
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