Charging fire safety e bikes

[mattheus]

Well I for one would love to see hoverboards on my station platform.

RIP Marty McFly!

[fivebikes]

Give it a few more years and the press will be highlighting the number of Lithium battery cars which catch fire, explode or evaporate in a puff of smoke. Ebikes and scooters are just the tip of an iceberg.

Online social media platforms are posting this already.
Often unsubstantiated clips of vehicles of all kinds, only some recognisable as EVs. One I remember, showed a supposed EV bus fire. Dramatic and explosive, it was later established that it was a LPG powered bus.
I suspect that these posts are shared by people who have an interest in perpetuating the use of fossil fuelled transport. I have seen some on FB, reposted by people who are of that mind. Their posts on clean air zones, so called ‘road tax’ being unjust, motorists in general being unfairly treated, suggest that. Certainly, in the two wheels good/four wheels bad debate, they are determinedly in favour of the supremacy of four, petrol or diesel but not electric.
So the risks of lithium batteries exploding are real, but so is the risk of being struck by lightning…..tragically it does happen, but we carry on and can minimise the chances of that too.

[simonineaston]

Lithium batteries in disposable vape units are becoming a problem, too, at refuse recycling facilities. Small fires are becoming increasingly common and are apparantly hard to deal with.

[re_cycler]

Isn't it only a certain construction of lithium batteries? The difference means escooters are banned but ebikes are not on trains. If so you have to take out the devices using the safer lithium batteries making what's left with a higher fire rate.

No idea of any figures but as always mixing data can confuse the narrative.

No, I THINK that's because escooters are generally not legal on the public highway, so GWR feel happier to ban them. eBikes that conform to regs etc etc are just as legal as bio-bikes.

The local route and franchise have notices at stations stating escooters and hoverboards are banned for fire risk reasons. Before this came into effect they were very happy to let them on. So much that they let them onto busy trains when they wouldn't let normal bikes on and all but the smallest folding bikes on. The ban was because of fire risk from the type of batteries in escooters and hoverboards.

Is it actually the type of batteries that is a problem or that the quality of some products and / or they way the batteries are being used creates a greater risk. I'm sure that some electric bikes could fall into the same risk category and have a lot more energy stored in their batteries.

[fivebikes]

Lithium batteries in disposable vape units are becoming a problem, too, at refuse recycling facilities. Small fires are becoming increasingly common and are apparantly hard to deal with.

Heard someone on the radio who collects them and has them recycled to extract the lithium etc for making new batteries. Can’t remember the figures he quoted but a lot of cash to be had doing that.
Seems like a good reason to charge a refundable or transferable deposit on the things?
I’ve discovered my fancy Bosch Athlet vacuum cleaner, lithium battery powered, is essentially disposable. The replacement battery pack includes the motor but costs more than a new cleaner….and is pretty much unobtainable anyway. Hate junking it after five years! Will have to be done with care too! Same with my Phillips toothbrush but that has lasted longer and they do print disposal advice on the packaging….which I have disposed of!

[simonineaston]

Seems like there's a whole new global sub-economy based around lithium! btw do elements get a capital letter? Can't think why - they're not a proper noun - or are they??

[Tangled Metal]

No, I THINK that's because escooters are generally not legal on the public highway, so GWR feel happier to ban them. eBikes that conform to regs etc etc are just as legal as bio-bikes.

The local route and franchise have notices at stations stating escooters and hoverboards are banned for fire risk reasons. Before this came into effect they were very happy to let them on. So much that they let them onto busy trains when they wouldn't let normal bikes on and all but the smallest folding bikes on. The ban was because of fire risk from the type of batteries in escooters and hoverboards.

Is it actually the type of batteries that is a problem or that the quality of some products and / or they way the batteries are being used creates a greater risk. I'm sure that some electric bikes could fall into the same risk category and have a lot more energy stored in their batteries.

The average guard or revenue protection officer isn't going to know the quality of the setup just the type. It may result in banning good and safe designs but I always thought the issue was the battery design and location. The battery type is easily damaged which can lead to this issue. Putting the battery where it is low down and is more likely to be damaged makes it a bigger issue. On ebikes the batteries are usually on the downtube behind the front wheel or under the rear rack. Even e-bromptons put the battery higher if up front. Hoverboards and e-scooters put the battery in the deck you stand on. Easier to knock it on a kerb or something causing damage.

[re_cycler]

That is true, although I would have thought professional power tool batteries have a potentially hard life and I've seen 9ah Li-Ion packs. You could have a few of those in your bag heading to work. No idea what the answer is but not sure that it's an ever increasing list of banned items.

[stodd]

That is true, although I would have thought professional power tool batteries have a potentially hard life and I've seen 9ah Li-Ion packs. You could have a few of those in your bag heading to work.

But they won't be connected while in the bag; with the stress of discharge and (if badly designed/routed) with wires liable to fray and touch.

[Nigel]

.....
I’ve discovered my fancy Bosch Athlet vacuum cleaner, lithium battery powered, is essentially disposable. The replacement battery pack includes the motor but costs more than a new cleaner….and is pretty much unobtainable anyway. Hate junking it after five years! Will have to be done with care too! Same with my Phillips toothbrush but that has lasted longer and they do print disposal advice on the packaging….which I have disposed of!

The lesson is to check repairability before buying devices. Some are more repairable than others. Some makers have a reputation of dropping support after a few years, or making them more expensive than new. Check the availability of battery packs and their price for cordless appliances.

[fivebikes]

.....
I’ve discovered my fancy Bosch Athlet vacuum cleaner, lithium battery powered, is essentially disposable. The replacement battery pack includes the motor but costs more than a new cleaner….and is pretty much unobtainable anyway. Hate junking it after five years! Will have to be done with care too! Same with my Phillips toothbrush but that has lasted longer and they do print disposal advice on the packaging….which I have disposed of!

The lesson is to check repairability before buying devices. Some are more repairable than others. Some makers have a reputation of dropping support after a few years, or making them more expensive than new. Check the availability of battery packs and their price for cordless appliances.

Yeah, it was a bit of a lapse! I happily use 36 volt Bosch garden tool batteries in my mower and also my ARCC Moulton, e bike conversion. I wanted to avoid buying a Dyson and my neighbour had a Bosch….. It’s just that model range, other Bosch vacs use removable batteries.
It’s a pity as it still works well but doesn’t last as long as when new. There are vids on YouTube about replacing cells but this seems a potentially hazardous process!!

[Biospace]

Is it actually the type of batteries that is a problem or that the quality of some products and / or they way the batteries are being used creates a greater risk.

The charger could be a problem in itself, or a combination of charger and battery.

[AndyK]

Seems like there's a whole new global sub-economy based around lithium! btw do elements get a capital letter? Can't think why - they're not a proper noun - or are they??

We digress, but I think it's a side-effect of the periodic table abbreviations all having initial capitals. (Li, He, Cu, Ag etc.) . Because people are vaguely aware of that, they assume - wrongly - that the element's full name must be spelt with an initial capital too. The thing that winds me up is when people write "Li-Ion", as if "Ion" were the name of another element. (Sorry, re-cycler.)

[AndyK]

Is it actually the type of batteries that is a problem or that the quality of some products and / or they way the batteries are being used creates a greater risk.

The charger could be a problem in itself, or a combination of charger and battery.

I read a report in the BikeBiz trade mag a few months back on this - it's online at https://micromobilitybiz.com/fire-safet ... ty-market/ . Obviously it's seen through the eyes of of "reputable" UK e-scooter dealers and distributors, who can't compete on price with untested, uncertified and unregulated grey imports, but it's an interesting read anyway.

My (wholly evidence-free) theory is that e-scooters are seen as higher risk because e-scooter fires are more common than e-bike fires, in turn because e-bikes are mostly bought by older people who are more likely to pay a premium for a well-known brand from an established dealer and more likely to pay for regular maintenance, while e-scooters are mostly ridden by younger people with fewer qualms about finding the cheapest price they can, buying direct from made-up-company-name in China via AliExpress and accepting that they'll ride it until it turns into a ball of flame, then buy another one.

[re_cycler]

Seems like there's a whole new global sub-economy based around lithium! btw do elements get a capital letter? Can't think why - they're not a proper noun - or are they??

We digress, but I think it's a side-effect of the periodic table abbreviations all having initial capitals. (Li, He, Cu, Ag etc.) . Because people are vaguely aware of that, they assume - wrongly - that the element's full name must be spelt with an initial capital too. The thing that winds me up is when people write "Li-Ion", as if "Ion" were the name of another element. (Sorry, re-cycler.)

That's fine, point well made and obvious when pointed out.