How to plan a canal route?

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Sooper8
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Joined: 20 Aug 2012, 7:53am

How to plan a canal route?

Post by Sooper8 »

Can anyone give me a few tips on planning a ride on canal tow paths please?

Is the easiest way to tell if a canal path is rideable by looking on this site below, and if the canal is a blue line on there, then it's definitely navigable?

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-th ... ing-routes

Is there an app or anything else to give more information about cycling canal paths?

Thanks
Nearholmer
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Joined: 26 Mar 2022, 7:13am

Re: How to plan a canal route?

Post by Nearholmer »

Some kind person here pointed out to me that a good clue can often be found from OSM, so CycleTravel or CycleStreets, if you look closely enough. If coded correctly, the size of the brown dashes/dots tells you how good/bad an unsurfaced path is. The dashed blue and continuous blue tell you how firmly surfaced a surfaced path is.

I’ve found that in dry weather, with the right tyres and the right determination, any tow path is do-able, if sometimes rather overgrown in high summer, but once the ground is wet, some are a bit “exciting”, involving multiple opportunities to fall in the canal.

Away from really good bits of path, despite the lack of gradients, tow-paths are very slow going in my experience.

PS: the C&RT grow a specially selected breed of hawthorn in their hedges, which has thorns like stilettos, so in hedge-cutting season few tyres survive inflated except tubeless.
Last edited by Nearholmer on 29 May 2023, 5:00pm, edited 3 times in total.
Jdsk
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Re: How to plan a canal route?

Post by Jdsk »

Since I discovered this forum i wouldn't set off without asking...

: - )

Jonathan
Sooper8
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Joined: 20 Aug 2012, 7:53am

Re: How to plan a canal route?

Post by Sooper8 »

Nearholmer wrote: 29 May 2023, 4:52pm Some kind person here pointed out to me that a good clue can often be found from OSM, so CycleTravel or CycleStreets, if you look closely enough. If coded correctly, the size of the brown dashes/dots tells you how good/bad an unsurfaced path is. The dashed blue and continuous blue tell you how firmly surfaced a surfaced path is.

I’ve found that in dry weather, with the right tyres and the right determination, any tow path is do-able, if sometimes rather overgrown in high summer, but once the ground is wet, some are a bit “exciting”, involving multiple opportunities to fall in the canal.

Away from really good bits of path, despite the lack of gradients, tow-paths are very slow going in my experience.

PS: the C&RT grow a specially selected breed of hawthorn in their hedges, which has thorns like stilettos, so in hedge-cutting season few tyres survive inflated except tubeless.
Many thanks for those tips. It would be handy to know what the surface is like.

I live in a 'canal town', so have ventured up and down in each direction for maybe 15 miles or so in the last few weeks. Within that time , it's gone from 'a bit muddy and slippy on places', to 'hard and a bit bumpy'. The endless undulations in one part are fun enough for a few minutes, but become quite tedious after 15 mins of it.
And I got a hawthorn puncture on my first outing about a month ago, so I can see what you mean!

However , I have a cycling friend in another town , also on the canal network, so I have a plan to go over there soon. Almost any canal route would be better than the roads I normally travel between us.

So, follow up question - if I work with those apps, it could theoretically tell me the distance? And then I could work out how long to get there if I also work out my average speed for a tow path ?
Sooper8
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Re: How to plan a canal route?

Post by Sooper8 »

Just had a look at Komoot on my laptop.(I have a phone version too) It shows actual photos of canal path that people have posted. Gives a bit of an idea of what you would be riding. So, as soon as I can work out how to draw out/plan a route on Komoot , I will be sorted I think.
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cycleruk
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Re: How to plan a canal route?

Post by cycleruk »

RidewithGPS has the annoying habit of routing my routes along canal towpaths.
Usually denoted by a dashed red line.
I don't like them unless they have a good surface. Even then the ones in my area have too many bridges to duck under.

www.ridewithgps.com
You'll never know if you don't try it.
Sooper8
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Joined: 20 Aug 2012, 7:53am

Re: How to plan a canal route?

Post by Sooper8 »

cycleruk wrote: 29 May 2023, 8:00pm RidewithGPS has the annoying habit of routing my routes along canal towpaths.
Usually denoted by a dashed red line.
I don't like them unless they have a good surface. Even then the ones in my area have too many bridges to duck under.

www.ridewithgps.com
That sounds like the app I need!

Thanks
Nearholmer
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Re: How to plan a canal route?

Post by Nearholmer »

So, follow up question - if I work with those apps, it could theoretically tell me the distance? And then I could work out how long to get there if I also work out my average speed for a tow path ?
With CycleStreets and CycleTravel you seem to have to be a bit bossy to get them to route you along a towpath, unless it is part of NCN, I guess the originators know how variable the paths can be, so de-prioritise them except in CycleTravel’s “gravel” option.

But, with that long-winded caveat, yes.

Which two towns? Then I can try them for you.
Sooper8
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Re: How to plan a canal route?

Post by Sooper8 »

Nearholmer wrote: 29 May 2023, 8:43pm
So, follow up question - if I work with those apps, it could theoretically tell me the distance? And then I could work out how long to get there if I also work out my average speed for a tow path ?
With CycleStreets and CycleTravel you seem to have to be a bit bossy to get them to route you along a towpath, unless it is part of NCN, I guess the originators know how variable the paths can be, so de-prioritise them except in CycleTravel’s “gravel” option.

But, with that long-winded caveat, yes.

Which two towns? Then I can try them for you.
I have had a very tedious time this evening getting Komoot and GPSies to do the route planning for canal.
I'm going between Burton on Trent (Trent and Mersey ) to Solihull via Coventry canal, down to the Birmingham and Fazely canal
As I say, Komoot does show users photos of the paths as reference, but it would be interesting to know what cyclists have made of the route
Nearholmer
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Re: How to plan a canal route?

Post by Nearholmer »

Here’s what CycleTravel proposes when in “gravel” mode, nearly all of it being canal-side, I think.
CD0860DA-3A73-4B62-A751-43AF2EE0F49A.jpeg
Sooper8
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Joined: 20 Aug 2012, 7:53am

Re: How to plan a canal route?

Post by Sooper8 »

Nearholmer wrote: 29 May 2023, 10:37pm Here’s what CycleTravel proposes when in “gravel” mode, nearly all of it being canal-side, I think.
That looks identical to the route it took me an hour or so to plot on my 2 apps/web site

Thanks for that tip for that app. I'll give that a go

What is the significance of the different colours of route? (green /blue)
Nearholmer
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Re: How to plan a canal route?

Post by Nearholmer »

In that particular app, blue is surfaced, green not.

On that route, some of the blue is well-surfaced canal-side (near Mineortj for instance), some is surfaced paths through country parks, and some minor roads, from what I can see.

I use the ‘gravel’ option on it a fair bit, because I enjoy lumpy-bumpy cycling, but I’d warn you that if your main purpose is to get somewhere reasonably quickly it wouldn’t be the option to select, because out in the country it goes for bridleways where there is nothing better, and, like tow-paths, they range from ‘good’ to ‘rough/muddy as it gets’.

A final caveat on all OSM-based apps, including komoot: some of the underlying coding of routes is wrong. I live in Milton Keynes, and the coding of the very complex path network here is “all over the place”, so OSM-based apps come up with very circuitous routes. This is a function of an ‘open source’ system, reliant on users to correct any errors they find …… it just takes ‘forever’ for users to correct very dense and complex areas.
Sooper8
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Joined: 20 Aug 2012, 7:53am

Re: How to plan a canal route?

Post by Sooper8 »

Nearholmer wrote: 30 May 2023, 7:44am In that particular app, blue is surfaced, green not.

On that route, some of the blue is well-surfaced canal-side (near Mineortj for instance), some is surfaced paths through country parks, and some minor roads, from what I can see.

I use the ‘gravel’ option on it a fair bit, because I enjoy lumpy-bumpy cycling, but I’d warn you that if your main purpose is to get somewhere reasonably quickly it wouldn’t be the option to select, because out in the country it goes for bridleways where there is nothing better, and, like tow-paths, they range from ‘good’ to ‘rough/muddy as it gets’.

A final caveat on all OSM-based apps, including komoot: some of the underlying coding of routes is wrong. I live in Milton Keynes, and the coding of the very complex path network here is “all over the place”, so OSM-based apps come up with very circuitous routes. This is a function of an ‘open source’ system, reliant on users to correct any errors they find …… it just takes ‘forever’ for users to correct very dense and complex areas.
Many thanks. Much appreciated.

I downloaded the app you mention but cant see the 'gravel' option (see screen shot below) ...do I need to make an account to get that option?


I totally agree, I could get there much faster by road, but I enjoy the relative peace and quiet off-roads, and even on my relatively short excursions down the canal so far, I see so much wild-life, that it's an 'end' in itself.

EDIT - I can see the 'gravel' option on the web site version. Thanks
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Last edited by Sooper8 on 30 May 2023, 10:01am, edited 1 time in total.
Sooper8
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Joined: 20 Aug 2012, 7:53am

Re: How to plan a canal route?

Post by Sooper8 »

for anyone interested, I just found this article on canal path cycling on the Cycle Travel web site that Nearholmer mentioned

https://cycle.travel/advice/canal_cycling
Nearholmer
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Re: How to plan a canal route?

Post by Nearholmer »

It sometimes does that, for reasons that baffle me.

Try clearing the route, coming out, then going back in again.

You should get this (no payment required):
6F751C03-9B04-4DF2-AB8B-DB0F6F3AC121.png
Mr Fairhurst, the genius behind the app, is a contributor here, so may arrive to explain to us why it sometimes defaults to a narrow menu of options.
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