Multivitamins

[al_yrpal]

For the last 15 years at least I have taken a multivitamin and mineral tablet every day. I always make sure that vitamin D is included because I burn in the sun and tend to keep out of the sun and use sunscreen. Whether it has done me any good I cant say. I do have narrowed arteries and 8 stents to deal with them. My first wife didnt take multivitamens and died as a result of Lewy body dementia but thats hardly a clinical study and proves very little. I do believe a multivitamin tablet is a good catch all.

Al

[Psamathe]

I'd guess that this is the study: "Multivitamin Supplementation Improves Memory in Older Adults: A Randomized Clinical Trial":
https://www.cuimc.columbia.edu/news/mul ... tudy-finds
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... cid=author

Jonathan

I wonder to what extent the findings relate to the US diet and how applicable they might be to the UK diet. I have no expertise but many sources say "you get all you need from a balanced diet" - so if that is the case, might the US diet be less "balanced" than UK diet and thus the outcome be different were the same research carried out in the UK?

Ian

[simonineaston]

As clever primates, we're motivated by two tendancies - optimism & opportunism. Thus we imbue many things with imaginary powers. Relgions are one example. This is the basis of the multi-billion and unregulated food suppliment industry.

[Jdsk]

I'd guess that this is the study: "Multivitamin Supplementation Improves Memory in Older Adults: A Randomized Clinical Trial":
https://www.cuimc.columbia.edu/news/mul ... tudy-finds
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... cid=author

I wonder to what extent the findings relate to the US diet and how applicable they might be to the UK diet. I have no expertise but many sources say "you get all you need from a balanced diet" - so if that is the case, might the US diet be less "balanced" than UK diet and thus the outcome be different were the same research carried out in the UK?

I've now read that paper a couple of times. (I haven't read the coverage in the Times.)

As a general principle neither individuals nor practitioners should change what they do as a result of any single study. Having said that this is a randomised controlled trial with a fair number of subjects so it's pretty well up the hierarchy of evidence for this field.

Yes, for it to affect anything for a different population it's necessary to check how well the populations match: "external validity" in the jargon. Just as you say. The authors are appropriately cautious about transferability, for example they observed that to being a subject required web access and the skills to use it.

It's certainly possible that there would be systematic differences between the diet of the subject population and the diet of any given UK group. (Careful wording there because diets vary so much across the UK.) And for any UK individual or UK group I'd especially look at existing vitamin D supplementation as the benefits look good but it is a matter of personal choice rather than through extensive food supplementation.

Oxford CEBM note on "Making a decision" and external validity:
https://www.cebm.ox.ac.uk/resources/ebm ... a-decision

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

I wonder to what extent the findings relate to the US diet and how applicable they might be to the UK diet. I have no expertise but many sources say "you get all you need from a balanced diet" - so if that is the case, might the US diet be less "balanced" than UK diet and thus the outcome be different were the same research carried out in the UK?

Rant warning ON.

"Balanced diet"... words that only cross my lips so that they can be criticised! I think that most users mean "varied diets", something for which the evidence of beneficial effects seems to be steadily growing. "Balance" needs to be between at least two things...

Rant warning OFF.

;- )

Jonathan

[re_cycler]

A varied diet, I eat all types of junk foods.
Maybe a nutritionally balanced or nutritionally varied diet ?

[briansnail]

I like natural - Veg and fruit.Note just as cheap.

[Jdsk]

I like natural - Veg and fruit.Note just as cheap.

I recommend supplementation of vitamin D.

Jonathan

PS: If you're worried about that not being natural would it help to remember that it might not be natural for humans to live at such high latitudes?

[Carlton green]

I like natural - Veg and fruit.Note just as cheap.

I recommend supplementation of vitamin D.

Jonathan

PS: If you're worried about that not being natural would it help to remember that it might not be natural for humans to live at such high latitudes?

I’ve skimmed the thread and attempted to wade through the NHS web site.

As best as I can understand it your recommendation for older guys, like most of us here, is to take some vitamin D - I wonder how much - and that the rest (of vitamin and mineral needs) should arrive via a varied diet. Would that be correct?

[Jdsk]

...
As best as I can understand it your recommendation for older guys, like most of us here, is to take some vitamin D - I wonder how much - and that the rest (of vitamin and mineral needs) should arrive via a varied diet. Would that be correct?

Current NHS advice on vitamin D including dose:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins- ... vitamin-d/

Jonathan

PS: I personally think that it's wise to supplement with that dose all year round. And i wouldn't be surprised if that appeared in the NHS guidance quite soon.

[Carlton green]

...
As best as I can understand it your recommendation for older guys, like most of us here, is to take some vitamin D - I wonder how much - and that the rest (of vitamin and mineral needs) should arrive via a varied diet. Would that be correct?

Current NHS advice on vitamin D including dose:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins- ... vitamin-d/

Jonathan

PS: I personally think that it's wise to supplement with that dose all year round. And i wouldn't be surprised if that appeared in the NHS guidance quite soon.

Thank you. Any thoughts on the second half of the question regarding other vitamins and minerals arriving via a varied diet?

[Jdsk]

...
Any thoughts on the second half of the question regarding other vitamins and minerals arriving via a varied diet?

For adult men and without any other specific reasons I wouldn't recommend any other supplementation.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/
https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questi ... pplements/

Jonathan

[Carlton green]

...
Any thoughts on the second half of the question regarding other vitamins and minerals arriving via a varied diet?

For adult men and without any other specific reasons I wouldn't recommend any other supplementation.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/
https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questi ... pplements/

Jonathan

Thank you.

Edit. These might also help other people:

Even if you eat vitamin D-rich foods, it’s unlikely that you will get all the vitamin D you need from your food. It’s recommended that we have 10 micrograms of vitamin D each day, but the average intake in the UK from food is thought to be less than three micrograms. Most of our vitamin D is made through our skin when we are outside in daylight.

From April to September in the UK, sunlight plus a healthy balanced diet will be enough to meet most people’s needs. From October to March, it’s recommended that we take a vitamin D supplement.

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsuppo ... 0you%20buy.

Vitamin D is found naturally in oily fish, red meat, liver and egg yolks, and is added to foods like breakfast cereals and fat spreads. A 140g piece of baked salmon contains 10.2 micrograms, a bowl of fortified bran flakes has 1.5 micrograms and an egg has 1.9 micrograms. Most of us don't get enough vitamin D from diet alone, which is why a supplement is recommended if we're not getting much sunlight.

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsuppo ... /vitamin-d

Low vitamin D levels are apparently linked to SAD or ‘Winter Blues’ too.

Get enough vitamin D- a lot of people in the UK do not have enough vitamin D. The national recommendation is to consider taking over the counter vitamin D (10 micrograms or 400 iU for those age 4+) during autumn and winter.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/south/2023/0 ... ter-blues/

[al_yrpal]

As I said earlier I take a multivitamin and mineral tablet every day, and to me its a catch all. Is there any evidence that taking that pill is in any way harmful given that the rest of my diet is pretty healthy?

Al

[Jdsk]

As I said earlier I take a multivitamin and mineral tablet every day, and to me its a catch all. Is there any evidence that taking that pill is in any way harmful given that the rest of my diet is pretty healthy?

I don't know what you mean by a "catch all".

If the pill contain "antioxidants", beta-carotene, vitamin A or vitamin E then the answer is "Yes, there is some evidence".

My recommendations for adult men are posted upthread: follow the NHS guidance with one variation, supplementation with vitamin D all year round rather than only in the winter months.

Jonathan