Les couteaux... to carry, or not?

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
ThePinkOne
Posts: 246
Joined: 12 Jul 2007, 9:21pm

Re: Les couteaux... to carry, or not?

Post by ThePinkOne »

thirdcrank wrote: 19 Aug 2015, 8:39pm It would only be possible to measure the success of the law by identifying what it was trying to achieve. Let's go for "social control." Within a society still divided along class lines, the law is part of the portrayal of British = Best which seems to succeed pretty well in keeping the lid on.

Looking at whether it actually "works" at a more individual level is somewhat different. People who come into contact with the criminal law whether as defendants or complainants are often dissatisfied. It's my impression, and no more than that, that the people who live in places - mainly European countries - where they ditched the adversarial system are happier with the way things work.

One of the problems I was trying to explain further up is that the more the individual suspect is protected from the power of the law and ultimately the state, the more restrictions tend to be placed on everybody. Knives are IMO a pretty good example of this. Few of us want violent people being able to increase their potential to cause injury by arming themselves with knives etc but that's not so easy to deliver, so we end up with blanket bans on some of the most useful implements devised by mankind.
============================================================================
PS I forgot to add this before in connection with the USA and guns How about:

A boy scout movement being necessary to the health of horses' hooves, the right of little boys to own penknives shall not be infringed. :wink:
Agree.

Knives (big, sharp ones) are so easy to get- every kitchen store (and most domestic kitchens contain several). And humans are inventive; simple, useful things have always been made into weapons (slingshots, bolas- just strings and rocks).

I learned to use a decent sized knife, a bow-saw, 2-person saw, handaxe and felling axe in the Venture Scouts. Couldn't do that now I guess.

It's a "social control" thing and the passive acceptance of extremely over-draconian laws during COVID made the Powers That Be bold. As they admitted, they never thought they could get away with that here...... Trust in the governing class and those who enforce their laws is at rock bottom; the recent riot in Ely in Cardiff shows what a tinder keg we have in some places.

TPO
Airsporter1st
Posts: 778
Joined: 8 Oct 2016, 3:14pm

Re: Les couteaux... to carry, or not?

Post by Airsporter1st »

Tangled Metal wrote: 11 Aug 2015, 1:11pm
In the UK the rules are clear enough but there is a provision in law for reasonable use. Basically if you are walking down a street carrying a kitchen knife then that is not legal.

Everything you say is true apart from the above. You mention reasonable use yourself and therefore a chef carrying a roll of kitchen knives to his place of work is fine. As you and others have said, its all about context.
User avatar
plancashire
Posts: 535
Joined: 22 Apr 2007, 10:49am
Location: Düsseldorf, Germany

Re: Les couteaux... to carry, or not?

Post by plancashire »

If you want to carry a knife that will not be found by a metal detector get a ceramic one.
I am NOT a cyclist. I enjoy riding a bike for utility, commuting, fitness and touring on tout terrain Rohloff, Brompton M3 and Wester Ross 354 plus a Burley Travoy trailer.
User avatar
freiston
Posts: 1500
Joined: 6 Oct 2013, 10:20am
Location: Coventry

Re: Les couteaux... to carry, or not?

Post by freiston »

I've been of the understanding that many ceramic bladed knives will have enough metal in them to show on a metal detector - and that manufacturers will put metal into the handle to make them detectable - I don't know if this is true. I am also of the understanding that a ceramic blade will show on an x-ray examination; again, I don't know if this is true.
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
User avatar
PedallingSquares
Posts: 547
Joined: 13 Mar 2022, 11:01am

Re: Les couteaux... to carry, or not?

Post by PedallingSquares »

bovlomov wrote: 13 Aug 2015, 12:08am Every child should have a penknife. Perhaps if children had a healthier relationship with knives they would get less of a thrill from carrying them.The blade and the hammer are the original human tools (unlike guns); it seems anti-human to stop us from carrying them. We shouldn't need an excuse. "I carry a knife because I am human" should be enough.
I carry a penknife everywhere, everyday and always have.I recently bought my 15 year old son his first penknife,a Joseph Rodgers British Army issue.Lovely, well made little pocket knife.My current is a Heinnie Haynes Penfold with Ti scales, another quality tool.The emphasis being on tool.
User avatar
freiston
Posts: 1500
Joined: 6 Oct 2013, 10:20am
Location: Coventry

Re: Les couteaux... to carry, or not?

Post by freiston »

For general purpose use, I used to carry an Opinel (no. 9) or a small folding locking knife until the law change. Now I carry a Leatherman Juice Pro - it is more a swiss army pocket knife type thing than a workman's tool though it still folds out to present pliers. It has two 2½" non-locking blades. People who know I carry it often ask to borrow it and I squirm and intervene as they attempt to use it - the most common fault being that once the blade is out, they think it folds the opposite way and go to use it in such a way that their pressure will fold the cutting edge back onto their fingers - this happened so much that I actively warn anyone borrowing it before they use it.

When camping (and also when going away anywhere where I might prep food and I'm unsure of a decent knife), I take an MSR Alpine Santoku knife which has a 17cm fixed and sheathed blade. I also take, when camping, a basic knife-fork-spoon set - the sort that the knife and fork slot onto two studs on the spoon handle.

As I'm sure many readers here are aware, both the MSR knife and the table/butter knife are not permitted (in the UK) to be carried for general purpose use but the carrier must have "good reason". As others have said, irrespective of precedent or correct interpretation, one is at the mercy of the person doing the checking and the power/authority that they wield.

If I understand correctly, then carrying a plastic table knife without a specific intention to use it to eat food or directly conveying it from point of receipt to the home (i.e. no stop at a pub on the way) falls foul of the law.
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
Bmblbzzz
Posts: 6249
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Les couteaux... to carry, or not?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

freiston wrote: 1 Jun 2023, 2:18pm Now I carry a Leatherman Juice Pro - it is more a swiss army pocket knife type thing than a workman's tool though it still folds out to present pliers. It has two 2½" non-locking blades. People who know I carry it often ask to borrow it and I squirm and intervene as they attempt to use it - the most common fault being that once the blade is out, they think it folds the opposite way and go to use it in such a way that their pressure will fold the cutting edge back onto their fingers - this happened so much that I actively warn anyone borrowing it before they use it.
Sounds like a bit of a design error – at least, something the designers omitted to take into account.
User avatar
freiston
Posts: 1500
Joined: 6 Oct 2013, 10:20am
Location: Coventry

Re: Les couteaux... to carry, or not?

Post by freiston »

A thin line I reckon, but I think it's more to do with people's presumptions/expectations of "form" (though I do also think that this ought to be considered as part of good ergonomic design) - once opened, they presume the blade edge is the other side of the blade to what it actually is and go to cut with the back of the blade - maybe because they expect the back of the blade to be flush with the edge of the handle but not the sharp edge of the blade.
leatherman.jpeg
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
Bmblbzzz
Posts: 6249
Joined: 18 May 2012, 7:56pm
Location: From here to there.

Re: Les couteaux... to carry, or not?

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Yeah, I can see the source of the confusion there, though if you stop and think about it (even without seeing the bladed edge) it's obvious it can only fold one way. I guess the best way is to unfold it yourself a few times before cutting anything.
Post Reply