Ely riot, 2023

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pwa
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Re: Ely riot, 2023

Post by pwa »

harriedgary wrote: 1 Jun 2023, 1:45pm stop being pedantic
Capital letter and full stop? :lol:
Jdsk
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Re: Ely riot, 2023

Post by Jdsk »

Inquest told of provisional causes of death: "blunt injury to the head" and ""blunt injury to the head and trunk". Coroner described deaths as "violent or unnatural".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65776549

Jonathan
Carlton green
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Re: Ely riot, 2023

Post by Carlton green »

Jdsk wrote: 1 Jun 2023, 4:05pm Inquest told of provisional causes of death: "blunt injury to the head" and ""blunt injury to the head and trunk". Coroner described deaths as "violent or unnatural".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65776549

Jonathan
Yes, an interesting outcome. At the time of the boys death they had apparently ‘escaped’ from being followed by the police and were freely on their way. As such the next question is what did they do, or hit, or even what was done unto them and then by who? There’s a lot left to come out of this sad tale.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
mattheus
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Re: Ely riot, 2023

Post by mattheus »

Carlton green wrote: 1 Jun 2023, 4:13pm
Jdsk wrote: 1 Jun 2023, 4:05pm Inquest told of provisional causes of death: "blunt injury to the head" and ""blunt injury to the head and trunk". Coroner described deaths as "violent or unnatural".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65776549

Jonathan
Yes, an interesting outcome. At the time of the boys death they had apparently ‘escaped’ from being followed by the police and were freely on their way. As such the next question is what did they do, or hit, or even what was done unto them and then by who? There’s a lot left to come out of this sad tale.
If a bystander had witnessed the police "contributing" to the crash in any way, I would be astonished that we haven't heard about it. (And their credibility will be vv low if they were to come forward now or later.) Look at how many people were on the scene shortly afterwards, desperate to hear such a story.

Occam's razor feels like the right tool by a long way here: the kids were hooning along, pumped up with the thrill of evasion, hit a solid object* at high speed, most likely way above the speed limit.

Sadly it happens, it wouldn't take much googling to find young men dying on conventional motorbikes in similar fashion.

(*Probably not something anyone cared about, like a private car, or garden wall).
Carlton green
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Re: Ely riot, 2023

Post by Carlton green »

mattheus wrote: 1 Jun 2023, 4:30pm
Carlton green wrote: 1 Jun 2023, 4:13pm
Jdsk wrote: 1 Jun 2023, 4:05pm Inquest told of provisional causes of death: "blunt injury to the head" and ""blunt injury to the head and trunk". Coroner described deaths as "violent or unnatural".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65776549

Jonathan
Yes, an interesting outcome. At the time of the boys death they had apparently ‘escaped’ from being followed by the police and were freely on their way. As such the next question is what did they do, or hit, or even what was done unto them and then by who? There’s a lot left to come out of this sad tale.
If a bystander had witnessed the police "contributing" to the crash in any way, I would be astonished that we haven't heard about it. (And their credibility will be vv low if they were to come forward now or later.) Look at how many people were on the scene shortly afterwards, desperate to hear such a story.

Occam's razor feels like the right tool by a long way here: the kids were hooning along, pumped up with the thrill of evasion, hit a solid object* at high speed, most likely way above the speed limit.

Sadly it happens, it wouldn't take much googling to find young men dying on conventional motorbikes in similar fashion.

(*Probably not something anyone cared about, like a private car, or garden wall).
It’s far from unusual to have prejudice, normal even, but as soon as we can it’s best to set them to one side and view each event in life independently. Lads are lads, some of them do stupid things and sometimes some of them do courageous things. Let’s see what news emerges over time.

Parents and those that bring up children hold some responsibility for how youngsters turn out. This evening, by chance, I spoke to someone who had worked as a Primary School Teacher in Ely. She said it was a rough area and really questioned why the boys had the electric bike, she appeared to be a gentle soul and questioned parenting in a none aggressive way.

Multiple things have gone on, let’s wait and see what further details emerge.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
Jdsk
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Re: Ely riot, 2023

Post by Jdsk »

Death in Salford with some similarities:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... r-27084254

"A 15-year-old boy on an electric bike has died after smashing into a parked ambulance having being followed by police."

Jonathan
Pebble
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Re: Ely riot, 2023

Post by Pebble »

The way I see young males riding modified electric bikes in Edinburgh and Newcastle I'm surprised we are not hearing of many more of these incidents. Or are we only hearing ones where the media can criticise the police?

What are the police supposed to do? if the rule is they can not pursue anyone on a bike-shaped-machine who is not wearing a helmet, then that will just cause more to do so......

And what will happen? laws making helmets and reg plates mandatory? Those who take no notice of laws will continue as usual, and the rest of us will be greatly inconvenienced - its the idiotic crap we get from modern day UK gov. It's on the way.
Carlton green
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Re: Ely riot, 2023

Post by Carlton green »

Pebble wrote: 8 Jun 2023, 11:56pm The way I see young males riding modified electric bikes in Edinburgh and Newcastle I'm surprised we are not hearing of many more of these incidents. Or are we only hearing ones where the media can criticise the police?

What are the police supposed to do? if the rule is they can not pursue anyone on a bike-shaped-machine who is not wearing a helmet, then that will just cause more to do so......

And what will happen? laws making helmets and reg plates mandatory? Those who take no notice of laws will continue as usual, and the rest of us will be greatly inconvenienced - its the idiotic crap we get from modern day UK gov. It's on the way.
We have long had over reaction and misguided laws that penalise the reasonable and have little impact on the intended target. It’s not possible to legislate for recklessness and for stupidity. There are already laws in place regarding electric bikes and these machines weren’t, if I understand correctly, road legal; the riders were also below the age required for a driving licence.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
Nearholmer
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Re: Ely riot, 2023

Post by Nearholmer »

It’s back to a point I made earlier to some degree though:

Assume that police have the will and staff to enforce e-bike/moped laws: how are they supposed to do it?

Personally, I think it’s a very difficult brief, because very powerful electric machines can, and sometimes are, made deliberately stealthy, while weedy machines can, and sometimes are, made to look macho. The two different things appeal to different buyers.

In the end, it’s likely to boil down at least partly to what happens now, when police have the will and staff to do it at all: policing rider conduct, how people ride, rather than what they are riding, and that is something very easy for irresponsible riders to ‘dodge’, simply by slowing down when they see a copper.

In short, maybe the police should make a bit more effort to impound and crush a few obviously non-compliant bikes that they can collar easily, without hazardous pursuit, but the practical challenges of enforcement are not insignificant.
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simonineaston
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Re: Ely riot, 2023

Post by simonineaston »

This issue will drag on and on 'till the legislation is ammended to treat all motor-bikes the same. The law can leave us cyclists, with our e-bikes that have pedals and modest power assistance, alone - our bikes are of little interest to the young lads who're most vulnerable to the elevated risks of misuse anyway...
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Jdsk
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Re: Ely riot, 2023

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 8 Jun 2023, 11:17pm Death in Salford with some similarities:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... r-27084254

"A 15-year-old boy on an electric bike has died after smashing into a parked ambulance having being followed by police."
Police statement:
https://www.gmp.police.uk/news/greater- ... n-salford/

Jonathan
mattheus
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Re: Ely riot, 2023

Post by mattheus »

Jdsk wrote: 9 Jun 2023, 10:07am
Jdsk wrote: 8 Jun 2023, 11:17pm Death in Salford with some similarities:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... r-27084254

"A 15-year-old boy on an electric bike has died after smashing into a parked ambulance having being followed by police."
Police statement:
https://www.gmp.police.uk/news/greater- ... n-salford/

Jonathan
Flippin' eck. Same issue with bollards, horrible coincidence. What a waste of life :(
At around 2pm today (08/06/2023), GMP traffic officers began following a boy riding an e-bike along Fitzwarren Street in Salford, onto Lower Seedley Road. Bollards prevented the police vehicle from continuing to follow the e-bike.

A short time later a road traffic collision occurred between the e-bike and an ambulance on Langworthy Road. The 15-year-old boy riding the e-bike sadly died.

In line with normal proceedings, the incident has been referred to IOPC who are now leading the investigation.
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simonineaston
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Re: Ely riot, 2023

Post by simonineaston »

Have written to my local MP asking her to consider changing the existing legislation that applies to motor cycles to include those that are powered by electric motor - ie not motor assisted pedal cycles.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
harriedgary
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Re: Ely riot, 2023

Post by harriedgary »

simonineaston wrote: 9 Jun 2023, 10:31am Have written to my local MP asking her to consider changing the existing legislation that applies to motor cycles to include those that are powered by electric motor - ie not motor assisted pedal cycles.
It's not that we don't have laws that would stop all of this. They just need enforcing. And until they are, young people are sadly gonna lose their lives.
Bored with earth, where is the mother ship please?
Jdsk
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Re: Ely riot, 2023

Post by Jdsk »

simonineaston wrote: 9 Jun 2023, 10:31am Have written to my local MP asking her to consider changing the existing legislation that applies to motor cycles to include those that are powered by electric motor - ie not motor assisted pedal cycles.
How would that differ from the current classes for mopeds and motorbikes?

https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules
https://www.gov.uk/ride-motorcycle-mope ... quirements

Thanks

Jonathan
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