Too expensive to get bike sorted

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Pinhead
Posts: 1107
Joined: 11 May 2023, 4:12pm

Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by Pinhead »

I have just had a quote to service my Saracen Mantra

Is any of this hard to do myself as I can not afford that for my son.

Thank you

Bottom bracket 20
Cranks 80
Chain 15
Cassette 30
Front rotor 30
Front brake pads 20
Cables 40
Labour 80

total £315

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Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by Jdsk »

What's the most difficult job that you've done on a bike so far?

You can probably get the parts cheaper than you'd be charged for them that way.

You may need some specific tools, and many of those can't be bodged.

There are two fantastic reference sites that will guide you through this, and then of course there's this forum!:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com
https://www.parktool.com/en-us/blog/repair-help

(There are some very helpful YouTube videos but I don't recommend them to the inexperienced because if what you have in front of you doesn't match what they have in front of them then it's hard to know what to do.)

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 31 May 2023, 3:56pm, edited 2 times in total.
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by Jdsk »

How about doing the work with help when needed at a cooperative workshop? Whereabouts would be convenient for you?

Jonathan
PH
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Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
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Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by PH »

None of it is really complicated, BB, cranks, cassette and chain require specific tools to remove and/or fit and you'll need a way to clean cut the cables. Why does it need new cranks? If they have removable rings it's cheaper to replace those. The prices look reasonable, you might shop around and save a couple of quid here and there, you can spend £40 on cables, though with a bit of luck you might find them a good bit cheaper.
What would be a real bonus is if you had access to a shared workshop, where you get to use the tools and can get advice, there are such places, you'd need local knowledge to know if that's an option. (EDIT- Cross posted with above)

Does it really need all of that right now? Without wishing to show any disrespect to your bike shop, the home mechanic might eke out a bit more from some components. A shop mechanic isn't going to want to send a bike out that's going to need to come back in a month, or part replace something that a home mechanic might take a chance on.
rareposter
Posts: 1964
Joined: 27 Aug 2014, 2:40pm

Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by rareposter »

That seems perfectly reasonable although it does indicate that the bike has basically been left for ages without a service and that everything has worn out together hence the big bill now rather than several smaller bills over a period of time.

Problem is that the bike was only £500-550 ish brand new so I can see why paying what is probably far more than the actual secondhand value of the bike seems excessive.

Quite honestly, if you don't know what you're doing with repairs and don't have the tools, I would not be trying to fix that long list from scratch. Buying things like bottom bracket tools (something that in theory you should only need once every few years) is not economical.

Is there any sort of cycle charity or communal workshop facility near you where people can teach you or do the repairs for less?

Does the shop have any sort of "credit" option where you can pay half now and half later?

The issue I suspect you'll find on a bike that has clearly been somewhat neglected and now needs everything fixing at once is that things might be a bit seized, a bit worn, maybe less than ideal to take apart etc and if you're not sure or trying to go off YouTube videos and forum advice, you'll quickly get into an expensive pit of "well I bought this tool but it doesn't fit" and "I tried to loosen this but it broke" and you'll end up with a more expensive bill to fix it! It's nothing personal, it's just stuff I've seen routinely when bikes are brought into a workshop along with "I was just trying to fix xxxx but..." or " I tried to tighten xxxx and..."

Edit: just to add, if you say whereabouts in the country you are, maybe a kindly forum member on here could offer to help or point you in the direction of a relevant cycle charity type place...
rareposter
Posts: 1964
Joined: 27 Aug 2014, 2:40pm

Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by rareposter »

PH wrote: 31 May 2023, 4:04pm None of it is really complicated, BB, cranks, cassette and chain require specific tools to remove and/or fit and you'll need a way to clean cut the cables. Why does it need new cranks? If they have removable rings it's cheaper to replace those. The prices look reasonable, you might shop around and save a couple of quid here and there, you can spend £40 on cables, though with a bit of luck you might find them a good bit cheaper.
If it's the bike I'm guessing it is, it was running a 3x8 groupset of mostly Tourney so once that's worn the whole lot needs to go in the bin, none of it is individually replaceable.

Nice frames though - Saracen did a few models of the Mantra and the top end ones were really quite smart. Bottom end ones had potential but offset by the cheap components. It's worth salvaging if possible but I suspect (guessing a bit from what I think the age of the bike is) that the quoted service is actually completely accurate and it's new groupset time. Ideally with something less cheese-like than the horrible Tourney stuff.
mattsccm
Posts: 5095
Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 9:44pm

Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by mattsccm »

Several ways to save money here.
First, look for your local cycle recycle place. They may have used parts they will sell . Eg the crank. It is probably a cheap square taper thing. If it is a cheapy steel triple thing can be had for £12.99 off ebay. It will be hefty and cheap but will the lad notice or care? Just search ebay for chainset. Cables
Set of gear cable or brake cable are 6 or 7 quid so double that for the lot.
Brake pads can be cheap on ebay. Not the greatest but they work.
Chain disc rotor can be done cheaper.
A lot depends on what model the bike is and what level of quality you want to put on. If it is for a y outh who leaves the bike outside then cheap and nasty will be great .
Most of the tools will be in the normal tool box but the crank pullers and bottom bracket tool would need to be a special bit of kit.
Don't expect your local shop to provide the labour if you rock up with cheap ebays bits but a local charity place might.
Ke1th
Posts: 99
Joined: 11 Jul 2018, 7:54pm

Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by Ke1th »

I'd be inclined to give up on this and buy a second hand replacement. Lots of people bought new bikes in lockdown and didn't realise they had to pedal them.
cycle tramp
Posts: 3479
Joined: 5 Aug 2009, 7:22pm

Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by cycle tramp »

Pinhead wrote: 31 May 2023, 3:48pm I have just had a quote to service my Saracen Mantra

Bottom bracket 20
Cranks 80
Chain 15
Cassette 30
Front rotor 30
Front brake pads 20
Cables 40
Labour 80
I presume the figures against the actual named parts are for direct replacements, and the 80 pounds is for the labour to replacement...
..if you're doing the work yourself then your saving 80 pounds, but to cut any further expenditure (investment ?) You may find that your substituting parts which may or may not work quite so well...
However, one thing that does jump out us the 80 pounds for a new crankset - but without seeing your current crankset I wouldn't know if it can be replace in a more cost efficient way... previously you mentioned that you preference to cycle on bike paths - if your son's bike has a triple chainset, does he use all three chainrings?
Last edited by cycle tramp on 2 Jun 2023, 7:37am, edited 1 time in total.
It's time to go :-)
Jupestar
Posts: 920
Joined: 29 Feb 2020, 3:03pm

Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by Jupestar »

rareposter wrote: 31 May 2023, 4:54pm it was running a 3x8 groupset of mostly Tourney
It would be good to know what it has, and what its replacing it with.

If rareposter is correct and it's a like for like replacement of the lowest spec Tourney set up, then you have to question the value for money. Can't argue with the quote, although you will be paying RRP for the parts.

The Saracen Mantra Pro (version with mainly Alivio) is only £525 new and has an upgraded fork as well.

Great bikes I used to borrow one for the trails. Good modern geo, and very decent frame. Only downside is the QR dropouts. Everything is moving to thru axles nowadays.

Looking at the versions of it online, the money has gone into the frame with cheapo parts. So it's set up nicely for an upgrade/self build...
maximus meridius
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Joined: 14 Feb 2023, 10:55pm

Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by maximus meridius »

Those prices don't look outrageously expensive, to me. Though you can probably shave a few pounds off here and there.

The £80 for labour is probably OK too, I would have said. Obviously you won't be paying that if you do the work yourself. But then you'll need some tools. BB tool (of some sort), cassette tool, which might also be a rotor tool. Or you might need the relevant torx bit if it's a 6 bolt rotor. A good cable cutter is far more worthwhile than some people think (I was one of those people). Chain splitter. All of which will reduce the cost advantage of doing it yourself. But you'll then have the tools for next time. I'm a great believer in tools. I have more than one BB tool and cassette tool.

This assumes that you already have a reasonable set of the non-cycling specific tools that you'll also need. Square drive ratchet, screwdrivers, hex keys, 4lb lump hammer, oxyacetylene torch, etc.

As has been said, finding a cycling co-operative is your best bet. I used one near me when I built my bike up. They had all the tools I needed (most of which I now own myself), and lots of people to give advice, while still letting me do the actual work myself.
Psamathe
Posts: 17616
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by Psamathe »

How much confidence do you have in the shop? I've had LBSs insist on replacing parts that did not need replacing (and then replace them with the wrong parts without telling me but which I checked and complained).

I'd ask another LBS to identify what's needed and quote (get the 2nd bike shop to quote without telling them about the work and quote you already have i.e. to check that all the parts proposed actually need replacing ...).

Ian
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Pinhead
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Joined: 11 May 2023, 4:12pm

Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by Pinhead »

Jdsk wrote: 31 May 2023, 3:55pm How about doing the work with help when needed at a cooperative workshop? Whereabouts would be convenient for you?

Jonathan
Never heard of them unfortunately I am in Wales, Aberystwyth
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Pinhead
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Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by Pinhead »

Ke1th wrote: 1 Jun 2023, 9:02pm I'd be inclined to give up on this and buy a second hand replacement. Lots of people bought new bikes in lockdown and didn't realise they had to pedal them.
I have two Saracens both 15 years old
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Pinhead
Posts: 1107
Joined: 11 May 2023, 4:12pm

Re: Too expensive to get bike sorted

Post by Pinhead »

cycle tramp wrote: 1 Jun 2023, 10:28pm
Pinhead wrote: 31 May 2023, 3:48pm I have just had a quote to service my Saracen Mantra

Bottom bracket 20
Cranks 80
Chain 15
Cassette 30
Front rotor 30
Front brake pads 20
Cables 40
Labour 80
I presume the figures against the actual named parts are for direct replacements, and the 80 pounds is for the labour to replacement...
..if you're doing the work yourself then your saving 80 pounds, but to cut any further expenditure (investment ?) You may find that your substituting parts which may or may not work quite so well...
However, one thing that does jump out us the 80 pounds for a new crankset - but without seeing your current crankset I wouldn't know if it can be replace in a more cost efficient way... previously you mentioned that you preference to cycle on bike paths - if your son's bike has a triple chainset, does he use all three chainrings?
Good question and yes never thought of it
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