Charging fire safety e bikes

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc. that are legal in the UK
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mattsccm
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009, 9:44pm

Re: Increasing risk of fire and danger to lives

Post by mattsccm »

Just a thought. When are wexsupposed to charge these things? If they are in use during the day then over night is the answer. Cars especially.
You don't see diesel cars bursting into flames though :x
re_cycler
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Re: Increasing risk of fire and danger to lives

Post by re_cycler »

AndyK wrote: 29 May 2023, 11:38pm
Biospace wrote: 29 May 2023, 8:11pm
re_cycler wrote: 27 May 2023, 8:58am Is it actually the type of batteries that is a problem or that the quality of some products and / or they way the batteries are being used creates a greater risk.
The charger could be a problem in itself, or a combination of charger and battery.
I read a report in the BikeBiz trade mag a few months back on this - it's online at https://micromobilitybiz.com/fire-safet ... ty-market/ . Obviously it's seen through the eyes of of "reputable" UK e-scooter dealers and distributors, who can't compete on price with untested, uncertified and unregulated grey imports, but it's an interesting read anyway.

My (wholly evidence-free) theory is that e-scooters are seen as higher risk because e-scooter fires are more common than e-bike fires, in turn because e-bikes are mostly bought by older people who are more likely to pay a premium for a well-known brand from an established dealer and more likely to pay for regular maintenance, while e-scooters are mostly ridden by younger people with fewer qualms about finding the cheapest price they can, buying direct from made-up-company-name in China via AliExpress and accepting that they'll ride it until it turns into a ball of flame, then buy another one.
I can't disagree with any of the above, I just find it a little annoying that what should be a general quality and product regulation issue becomes hidden by blaming a technology and implementation. But even if is just perception that e-scooters are a high risk I can see it would be hard not to want to be seen to mitigate that risk.
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simonineaston
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Re: Increasing risk of fire and danger to lives

Post by simonineaston »

Phew! How complicated chemistry appears to be... a point I made to my science teacher, as a teenager, but with which he seemed to disagree!
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Therealgoodguy
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Joined: 4 Jun 2023, 10:40am

Re: Increasing risk of fire and danger to lives

Post by Therealgoodguy »

Hi I'm new to the forum and have an ebike on the way.

The battery is supposed to be from one of the more trusted brand names but I'm not taking any chances.

The Barbi died so it can charge out there. A lot could go wrong from putting your battery to charge in such a place unless your Barbi is dead and you have no gas bottle there. One could trip on the extension cord I suppose. This is obviously not advice for others just what I'm doing until I think of a better way.

Cheers
MartinC
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Location: Bredon

Re: Increasing risk of fire and danger to lives

Post by MartinC »

what will you do in the winter - charging the battery in sub zero temperatures is bad?
ThePinkOne
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007, 9:21pm

Re: Increasing risk of fire and danger to lives

Post by ThePinkOne »

Therealgoodguy wrote: 4 Jun 2023, 10:52am Hi I'm new to the forum and have an ebike on the way.

The battery is supposed to be from one of the more trusted brand names but I'm not taking any chances.

The Barbi died so it can charge out there. A lot could go wrong from putting your battery to charge in such a place unless your Barbi is dead and you have no gas bottle there. One could trip on the extension cord I suppose. This is obviously not advice for others just what I'm doing until I think of a better way.

Cheers
If you're really concerned you could get a "Bat Safe" box.

Available from places that sell parts for model aircraft/other powered models. For example: https://wheelspinmodels.co.uk/m/622/

I have a couple of medium ones because I have quite an inventory of basic non-intelligent Lipo cells (the model type that need a proper charger and balance boards) for models. It's not unusual to crash models, and they use multi-cell packs that need balanced cell charging, so I treat the model packs with a bit more TLC than the usual consumer gadgets with Lipos in.

TPO
Airsporter1st
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Re: Increasing risk of fire and danger to lives

Post by Airsporter1st »

Therealgoodguy wrote: 4 Jun 2023, 10:52am Hi I'm new to the forum and have an ebike on the way.

The battery is supposed to be from one of the more trusted brand names but I'm not taking any chances.

The Barbi died so it can charge out there. A lot could go wrong from putting your battery to charge in such a place unless your Barbi is dead and you have no gas bottle there. One could trip on the extension cord I suppose. This is obviously not advice for others just what I'm doing until I think of a better way.

Cheers
I would imagine there are far more visits to A&E generated by trips over extension cords and far more fires caused by BBQ activities, than there are related to appliance batteries. As I have said up thread, the few incidents involving lithium batteries vs the number of same in daily use is insignificant. I believe much of the perceived problem is typical media scaremongering.
Jdsk
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Re: Increasing risk of fire and danger to lives

Post by Jdsk »

re_cycler wrote: 25 May 2023, 12:12pm
Jdsk wrote: 25 May 2023, 11:41am
Airsporter1st wrote: 20 May 2023, 1:37pm Anyone compared the numbers of people seriously injured/killed in car crashes vs those in lithium battery fires?
...
I don't know of any decent data on the number of lithium battery fires.
The only research in the UK appears to be at Newcastle University.
https://www.faraday.ac.uk/success-stori ... batteries/

The paper from the research among other areas looks at the risk over the life cycle of the cell.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... via%3Dihub
Thankyou. Interesting reading.

The data that I'd like would include how many incidents have a putative proximate cause of the type that everyone suspects: voodoo wiring, damaged gear, untraceable imports etc. That might reveal the risk for reputable kit used as recommended.

Jonathan
axel_knutt
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Re: Increasing risk of fire and danger to lives

Post by axel_knutt »

"Deputy Commissioner of London’s Fire Brigade Dom Ellis said that the force had been called out to 58 e-bike fires and 14 involving e-scooters this year, which “works out at roughly one fire involving these types of vehicles every couple of days.”

“As such, we have identified that fires involving lithium batteries are the fastest growing fire risk in the capital,”"


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/e ... 16f0&ei=13
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
mattheus
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Re: Increasing risk of fire and danger to lives

Post by mattheus »

Yoiks : -/
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mjr
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Re: Increasing risk of fire and danger to lives

Post by mjr »

An analysis of the problem in New York https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ig-workers
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Jdsk
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Re: Increasing risk of fire and danger to lives

Post by Jdsk »

mjr wrote: 25 Jun 2023, 10:14am An analysis of the problem in New York https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ig-workers
Thanks

Jonathan
axel_knutt
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Re: Increasing risk of fire and danger to lives

Post by axel_knutt »

Fire risk comparison from an insurance company here, it seems pretty inconclusive.

Fires per 100k sales:
Hybrid: 3474
Petrol: 1530
EV: 25
Fire safety recalls were all battery related on the EVs, not wiring.

But then further down the page:
"electric car fires occur in 3 out of every 1,000 starts, while gas car fires occur in 1 out of every 10,000 starts"
and
"electric car fires are responsible for approximately one-third of all car fires in the United States"
ThePinkOne wrote: 10 Jun 2023, 8:16pmIf you're really concerned you could get a "Bat Safe" box.
They don't appear to have any aperture for the charger cable.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
Jdsk
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Re: Increasing risk of fire and danger to lives

Post by Jdsk »

axel_knutt wrote: 25 Jun 2023, 5:18pm Fire risk comparison from an insurance company here, it seems pretty inconclusive.
...
Thanks for that. It's a weird article with those personal stories, but it does have some useful data at the top.

I'll try to find the two "University" studies.

Jonathan
djnotts
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Re: Increasing risk of fire and danger to lives

Post by djnotts »

This fire risk stuff is very disconcerting!
I have been saving for and working towards e assistance. To be worthwhile I had assumed using full charge nearly everyday and charging in garage overnight. Sharing with a car and full tank of petrol seemingly not a good idea! Garage also contains large batteries for the solar roof panels.
Charging overnight looks a no-no in the house.
Maybe e bike not as practical as I had thought?
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