eBike or Motorcycle?

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squeaker
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eBike or Motorcycle?

Post by squeaker »

Anyone else getting fed up with the use of 'eBike' to describe electrically powered motorcycles? Both the press and (worse) the police seem to be doing it (eg recent Ely case), and it's getting me down. I'd (naively, it seems) that eBike was a useful descriptor for electrically assisted pedal cycles - perhaps reversion to 'Pedalecs' might be in order, although I suspect the cat is out of the bag now :roll: :cry:
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Jdsk
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Re: eBike or Motorcycle?

Post by Jdsk »

It is a problem.

I can't see an easy or imminent solution. The official categories are there but the names aren't catchy.

https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules
https://www.gov.uk/ride-motorcycle-mope ... quirements

Jonathan
pete75
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Re: eBike or Motorcycle?

Post by pete75 »

Jdsk wrote: 9 Jun 2023, 12:35pm It is a problem.

I can't see an easy or imminent solution. The official categories are there but the names aren't catchy.

https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules
https://www.gov.uk/ride-motorcycle-mope ... quirements

Jonathan
It was better in my youth. Up to 250 on L plates as soon as 16, and if you passed the test at 16 you could ride any sized bike. The current rules seem to be designed to discourage motorbike riding.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Jdsk
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Re: eBike or Motorcycle?

Post by Jdsk »

The history of the law changes, and they do show steady tightening:
https://www.lightningpass.com/changes-m ... earner-law

Jonathan
VinceLedge
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Re: eBike or Motorcycle?

Post by VinceLedge »

Yep, I agree.
peterb
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Re: eBike or Motorcycle?

Post by peterb »

I'd be surprised if even 1% of the general public knows anything about law relating to ebikes, cut off speeds etc. IME a great many, if not most club cyclists don't either. I've had to explain innumerable times about 15.5 mph cut off, need to pedal to get assistance, bike weight, range and so on. The media should be using the term 'illegal electric motorbike' in reporting events like the recent ones.
harriedgary
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Re: eBike or Motorcycle?

Post by harriedgary »

peterb wrote: 9 Jun 2023, 1:49pm I'd be surprised if even 1% of the general public knows anything about law relating to ebikes, cut off speeds etc. IME a great many, if not most club cyclists don't either. I've had to explain innumerable times about 15.5 mph cut off, need to pedal to get assistance, bike weight, range and so on. The media should be using the term 'illegal electric motorbike' in reporting events like the recent ones.
Ah but by confusing the issues and failing to point out who is being illegal by doing what, they manage to make all cyclists illegal by default, which is what the generally car centric press want.
Those car nuts in the DM and other trash papers truly imagine that if all cyclists were forced off their bikes and into cars, then somehow the endless gridlock with cars at the front of each and every example (except the occasional stop oil protest <0.1%) will magically disappear.

Us planners keep screaming the same thing and been ignored. It's not the width of the pipe, but the flow-rate of the tap that determines how much water actually comes out.
Bored with earth, where is the mother ship please?
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simonineaston
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Re: eBike or Motorcycle?

Post by simonineaston »

...just returned from meeting friends when the discussion on this topic became slightly heated. As far as I'm concerned, it's quite straightforward - either the vehicle has pedals or it doesn't! Thus a two-wheeled vehicle with no means of propulsion other than a motor is a motorbike, regardless of where the motor gets its energy from. As such vehicles are all capable of exceeding even the lowest of speed limits, they should all require registration and use under the terms of a driver's licence. They should all be insured to use and subject to periodical inspection and suitable taxation - indeed, most of them are!
It just appears that the gov. hasn't woken up to the simple fact that some of them are powered by electric motor...
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Jdsk
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Re: eBike or Motorcycle?

Post by Jdsk »

simonineaston wrote: 9 Jun 2023, 3:32pm ...
As far as I'm concerned, it's quite straightforward - either the vehicle has pedals or it doesn't! Thus a two-wheeled vehicle with no means of propulsion other than a motor is a motorbike, regardless of where the motor gets its energy from. As such vehicles are all capable of exceeding even the lowest of speed limits, they should all require registration and use under the terms of a driver's licence. They should all be insured to use and subject to periodical inspection and suitable taxation - indeed, most of them are!
...
The risk of that categorisation is token pedals on a fast powered machine. As we used to have before the change of definition of moped.

If you don't want to relax restrictions from the current position you'd still need additional criteria for power and or speed of assistance.

(All corrections welcome... this is tricky without a table or a diagram.)

Current categories:
https://www.gov.uk/ride-motorcycle-mope ... quirements

Jonathan
Nearholmer
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Re: eBike or Motorcycle?

Post by Nearholmer »

The law as written doesn’t differentiate electric from any other power source once one moves beyond EAPCs does it?

It’s just a lot harder for a police officer or anyone else to spot that a thing is a moped or a motorbike if it doesn’t make a loud noise or leave a trail of blue exhaust.
Jdsk
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Re: eBike or Motorcycle?

Post by Jdsk »

Nearholmer wrote: 9 Jun 2023, 3:51pm The law is written doesn’t differentiate electric from any other power source once one moves beyond EAPCs does it?
The criteria for some of the categories use engine swept volume as well as engine power. But I think that that's the only difference.

(And I don't understand L1e.)

Jonathan
Nearholmer
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Re: eBike or Motorcycle?

Post by Nearholmer »

Where engine volume is used it’s an ‘and’ item, I think, going along with a speed and/or power limit.

Here’s what gov.uk says:

“Any electric bike that does not meet the EAPC rules is classed as a motorcycle or moped and needs to be registered and taxed. You’ll need a driving licence to ride one and you must wear a crash helmet.”

Looks pretty clear to me, and it’s what people who call for liberalisation seem to wish to have relaxed in some way.

The Motor Cycle Industry Association guide us easier to follow than the government one, and it’s noticeable that they are onto “the copper’s conundrum” of how hard it can be to distinguish between an EAPC and its slightly bigger brother:
E12702D4-D16E-4751-945E-2A38C7A9F7DC.jpeg
Last edited by Nearholmer on 9 Jun 2023, 10:19pm, edited 2 times in total.
Jdsk
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Re: eBike or Motorcycle?

Post by Jdsk »

reohn2
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Re: eBike or Motorcycle?

Post by reohn2 »

squeaker wrote: 9 Jun 2023, 12:31pm Anyone else getting fed up with the use of 'eBike' to describe electrically powered motorcycles? Both the press and (worse) the police seem to be doing it (eg recent Ely case), and it's getting me down. I'd (naively, it seems) that eBike was a useful descriptor for electrically assisted pedal cycles - perhaps reversion to 'Pedalecs' might be in order, although I suspect the cat is out of the bag now :roll: :cry:
Agreed and I'm seeing more and more of these illegal electric motorcycles masquerading as pedelecs and being used on the roads.
In a land where the police are spread so thinly as to be practically none existent what can we expect but the mice playing whilst the cat's away,the problem being that mispce are killing and seriously injuring themselves in the process.

It's all about policing,in that we need a lot more to enforce the law!
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