Ely riot, 2023

[the snail]

Have written to my local MP asking her to consider changing the existing legislation that applies to motor cycles to include those that are powered by electric motor - ie not motor assisted pedal cycles.

That makes no sense. If an electric bike doesn't meet the pedelec standards, then it is a motorcycle by default. The law already covers these machines, so it's a matter of enforcing the existing laws rather than creating new ones.

[harriedgary]

For some reason certain sections of the community ain't getting with the real facts of these cases. Yes all of us fit types can barrel along at 30mph under human power, for a short distance. Yes we can hit 45mph going down a long steep hill.
But the point is that it takes effort, and generally though not universally, any endeavour that requires effort brings along a tad more responsibility and common sense understanding of the risks. So when we are barrelling along at 30mph, feet whirling at 100rpm, we know we're making an effort, it's not effortless, and hence free from responsibility and awareness.

A bit like how modern cars hardly seem to be moving when they're doing 70mph, the drivers are getting isolated from the truth of what they are doing.

Electric bikes and scooters are so far away from the C5 it's unbelievable now. Then again, as a tool operator, i.e drills etc, I now have a battery drill with an incredible 820W of power from a small battery. Unbelievable compared to the feeble mains powered drill I had 30 years ago. Maybe the parent/care givers really don't appreciate how dangerous in inept hands these modern bikes are because of their excessive easy power and hence speed. Then they weep and blame absolutely everyone else for a death except themselves. The "we don't want a nanny state" quickly followed by the "Why didn't you - society - prevent this" People want their eggs and bacon without chickens or pigs. Ain't gonna happen.

To my eyes it seems that the government is behind all of this. There are already laws that
restrict what can be imported according to the laws of the nation
i.e it's against the law to have, hold or use cocaine, and so it's against the law to import it.
It's against the law to have a nuclear missile launcher, so there are laws to prevent you importing one, or indeed the parts for one - anyone remember the Iraq Super Gun debacle. Mainly over just a few capacitors.
Without digging through the regulations, I would wonder if it was illegal to import a car that decapitated pedestrians and used them as fuel.

So why are the authorities allowing the free import of illegal E bikes and scooters.

How many more young need to die?

It's almost as if the government want us to kill ourselves...

[markjohnobrien]

Crushing is the answer, mobile crushing machines, if the bike (or in deed car or lorry) is being used illegally then it gets thrown into the crushing machine. No if's no but's it just goes into the crusher.

Problem in the UK is the looney left human rights brigade, they just love sticking two fingers up at society and protecting the criminals. The police's hands are now so tied with bureaucracy they have mostly given up, just biding their time until the big fat public sector pension kicks in.

The Met Police had a unit where vehicles were confiscated and crushed and points added to licences.

If the so-called drivers were too young to have a licence, the points were added once they held a licence.

Superb - more police forces should do this.

[Jdsk]

Two gross misconduct notices issued to police officers in the van:
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/news/i ... nagers-ely

Jonathan

[RickH]

Two gross misconduct notices issued to police officers in the van:
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/news/i ... nagers-ely

Jonathan

Important to note that they are investigating whether there was gross misconduct, & have informed the officers that this is the case, rather than notifying them that they have been found to have acted in such a manner.

Another thing that I don't think has been commented on is that doorbell footage can often appear speeded up as it is recorded at a low frame rate (I don't know if that is universal or just with some setups). I found this out from discussion elsewhere about completely unrelated events. The motorcycle and the police van may actually have been travelling at much lower speed than it seemed from the footage that circulated early on in media coverage.

[Jdsk]

Two gross misconduct notices issued to police officers in the van:
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/news/i ... nagers-ely

Important to note that they are investigating whether there was gross misconduct, & have informed the officers that this is the case, rather than notifying them that they have been found to have acted in such a manner.
...

The threshold for issuing a notice and changing the status of an individual officer from witness to subject:
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/sites/ ... s_IOPC.pdf

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

A collection of responses and thoughts on policies:

"‘Softer tactics’: calls grow for UK ban on police chases of children on e-bikes":
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... kes-deaths

Jonathan

[ossie]

A collection of responses and thoughts on policies:

"‘Softer tactics’: calls grow for UK ban on police chases of children on e-bikes":
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... kes-deaths

Jonathan

Therein lies the issue. Some of these e bikes are essentially no different in appearance to motorbikes and how do you tell the difference between a child and an adult. If its banned it will simply become the getaway vehicle of choice for most offenders, many of whom are technically chlldren anyway and also a green light for anti social behaviour. The pursuit of mopeds, motorbikes has always been fraught with risks and many are called off unless proportionate...proportionality differs.

Do we want yobs having a green light to ride these things up and down our estates and streets without any way of dealing with them ? This isn't aimed at you more the subject.

[Nearholmer]

Come the first (next?) incident of a lad (or two) on one of these powerful machines skittling down an old lady and killing her, the whole drift of the conversation will flip the other way.

For the benefit of all, the law around these things does need to be enforced, but how on earth the police are meant to do that, I genuinely don’t know, especially if now the idea is that they shouldn’t intervene when they suspect that an offence is being committed.

[pwa]

More here on alleged criminality / law breaking around this matter:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c809x4r9k47o
My experience working on smaller estates than this one is that the great majority of residents hate the chaos going on around them, but can't speak up because their own children will be bullied if they do.

[Mike Sales]

Do not police pursuits of cars have very similar dangers? Probably even more dangerous for the uninvolved.

[pwa]

Do not police pursuits of cars have very similar dangers? Probably even more dangerous for the uninvolved.

And if we tell police that persuit is too dangerous and must not happen, that is a green light for anyone to ride anything they like with no licence, no insurance, and no need to comply with rules of the road. What do we want the police to do? Look the other way, or try to deal with it?

[Mike Sales]

Do not police pursuits of cars have very similar dangers? Probably even more dangerous for the uninvolved.

And if we tell police that persuit is too dangerous and must not happen, that is a green light for anyone to ride anything they like with no licence, no insurance, and no need to comply with rules of the road. What do we want the police to do? Look the other way, or try to deal with it?

I am asking, not arguing. I am pointing out that there are very similar problems in car chases which are at much higher speeds.
A fantasy solution which occurs to me is that motors should have cut outs which could be triggered at a distance by the police.

[Nearholmer]

One thing that could be done without involving the police directly would be for DVLA or whoever to run a strong campaign pointing out that it is illegal and dangerous to ride these bikes without complying with the law.

That might just, in a small way, get parents etc to “police” the problem, which will never be 100% effective, but better than nothing.

(I’m a parent of a son in the age group most prone to the attractions of these things ……. So far, so good. No requests for one.)

[pwa]

Do not police pursuits of cars have very similar dangers? Probably even more dangerous for the uninvolved.

And if we tell police that persuit is too dangerous and must not happen, that is a green light for anyone to ride anything they like with no licence, no insurance, and no need to comply with rules of the road. What do we want the police to do? Look the other way, or try to deal with it?

I am asking, not arguing. I am pointing out that there are very similar problems in car chases which are at much higher speeds.
A fantasy solution which occurs to me is that motors should have cut outs which could be triggered at a distance by the police.

That would be nice. But crims tend to find ways around things like that.