Cleat Set-Up Advice

[MCPB]

Hey everyone,

I hope this is the right place to post this as I had a look through and couldn’t really find a “Fit” section!

I’m having a little trouble, after x2 bike fits, with my knees. Not horrendous but a continuous issue that I can’t quite crack and would like to get sorted before I start training for LEJOG.

On my left knee I keep getting ITB related issues on the outside of my left knee and the top of the outter shin at the top of the fibula.

On my right knee I get a slight dull ache in the anterior/medial part of the soft tissue of the knee a few hours after a ride. As stated above I’ve had to two bikes with the most recent being very good and everything seems to be where it should be but for some reason I can’t seem to make any fine adjustments to cleats/position to stop the niggles.

I stretch once per day, I see a sports massage therapist once per week and I’m in the gym 3-4 times a week strength training. The training is mixed between lightweight and high rep and also the opposite some weeks. Training is split upper and lower.

If anyone has any advice or had similar I’d appreciate any tips. At the minute I’ve played with applicable slight rotation of cleats etc to no avail and am reluctant to do so as I have been fitted so I’m guessing the cleats are pretty spot on. Bike size is correct etc.

Thanks!

[Jdsk]

Welcome.

Presumably ITB = ilio-tibial band syndrome?

... I can’t seem to make any fine adjustments to cleats/position to stop the niggles

Do you mean that you can't make adjustments or that you can make adjustments but the pain doesn't go away when you do?

I don't know what criteria you and the filter were using for fitting but if the position is recurrently causing pain then it needs to be changed.

Happy Christmas

Jonathan

[531colin]

My favourite bike fitter is a bloke called Steve Hogg. Google him.
He has loads of stuff on line, plenty on cleat fitting, I have never needed to go any further than his simple cleat fitting stuff, but he covers wedging and all sorts of things, if you might need it.
Also google his article called "seat height, how hard can it be?" .....he says that lots of people get a "professional" bike fit and end up too high; the number of people I see on the road rocking their hips to reach the bottom pedal makes me think he is right.
You are much more likely to get sore knees reaching for the pedal from a saddle too high than you are from a saddle too low....if your saddle is on the low side of perfect you can always slide back a bit in the saddle or drop your heels for more knee extension if you need maximum power for a short burst.
Get somebody to ride behind you and see if you rock your hips, and if you are sitting straight on the bike, or if you tilt your pelvis, or the bike isn't exactly upright......mostly we are not completely symmetrical in either structure or function, and this can lead to one-sided injuries.

Get somebody to video you riding, ideally somebody riding next to you, and behind you, post it here.

Probably not necessary to say, but cleat angle should be so that your foot is always in the middle of the angular free float, not right at the end of the free float, pushing against the spring.

Before you change anything, mark, measure and photograph.......that way, you can get right back to where you were.

[Igglbert]

I've suffered from a similar issue that reared it's head after doing the NC500. My bike fit had me too far forward, and too high. My physio said that I wasn't using my glutes sufficiently (or at all, as the brain forgets!), with my quads doing too much work and becoming too out of balance. I think being too far forward was a contributor, and being too high caused me to plantar flex, both not helping to engage the glutes.

My physio said stretching was useless (aside from feeling nice) and that you must strengthen muscles to deal with tightness. The solution to my tight ITB and consequent knee pain was doing these exercises 3 or 4 times a week:

Split squats
Side Lying Hip Abduction
Half Side Plank with Leg Raise 4x15

I was told to do them to failure, but that's counter productive when trying to ride well on other days. Getting more glute engagement can really help with ITB issues.

Good luck.

Rob

[irc]

When using flat pedals my feet naturally took up a position pointing slightly out. So when I started using SPDs I replicated that. No issues.

When you were fitted I presume the fitter had some method for establishing your preferred foot position. TBH if you previously used flats with no knee issues and have a LEJOG in the near future it may be better sticking with them. When I used flats I had loose fitting toe clips. Worked well.

If you aready used cleats before the fitting with no issues then perhaps the fitting hasn't helped?

[531colin]

I've suffered from a similar issue that reared it's head after doing the NC500. My bike fit had me too far forward, and too high. My physio said that I wasn't using my glutes sufficiently (or at all, as the brain forgets!), with my quads doing too much work and becoming too out of balance. I think being too far forward was a contributor, and being too high caused me to plantar flex, both not helping to engage the glutes.
..............

"Too high, too far forward"......thats the current fashionable bike fit, often the result of making the rider "fit" a set of numbers, rather than sitting the rider on a bike and actually looking at how they function.
The numbers may come from some sort of study of professional team riders, I think there is a problem just transferring their "fit" over to somebody who rides for pleasure, and doesn't have the physical attributes of the professional cyclists.

Forward saddle position engages the quads, you have to sit a bit further back to engage glutes and hamstrings**; as far as I know you can't consciously engage them, but I'm prepared to be wrong.

Putting the feet forward on the pedal (ie. cleats back) also engages the quads, whereas putting the feet back on the pedal (cleats forward) engages the hamstrings.**

**I don't know why, but it is so!

[JohnI]

I've had ITB issues off and on for a few years. I also had a calf injury on the same leg that took a long time to clear up. The first physio I had was pretty useless, but eventually I saw another one and he told me that I over-pronate on that side and recommended wearing insoles with some arch support, even when I'm cycling. So far that seems to be working and I'm gradually building up the mileage.

It wouldn't have occurred to me that over-pronation is a problem when I'm cycling, but I had noticed that my pedalling action is slightly asymmetric and the foot on the dodgy side seems to point slightly more outwards than the other and moves a little on each pedal stroke (I use cleats with some float). So that's something that might be worth checking.

[Mick F]

Go back to my early cycling life, and I'd never heard of cleats.
Even as an adult cycle-commuting to work, I wore trainers.

When I bought rat trap pedals, the trainers became indented where the metal dug in.
Then, with the advent of clips and straps, I was able to adjust them so the indentations aligned.
Then, when I went to cycling shoes and new pedals, I could align them again.

Fast forward to my Campag pedals and road cleats, yet again I could align them knowing my feet positions.
Now, I'm on Speedplay and ditto.

I put it all down to trainers and rat-traps.

[Pendodave]

Have you always used cleats?
If so, is the discomfort a new phenomenon?
If not, why start using them now? I don't know that there's any particular advantage when leisure cycling over long distances.
Why not swap to flats with your current setup and see what happens?