Closure of ticket offices

[mjr]

I read that Which were comparing ticket machines to the infernal Trainline, which itself has the twin problems of not selling the cheapest tickets and of pushing people towards the one-train-only Advance tickets without adequate warning.

Better ticket sellers are available, depending whether you need bike reservations.

[Bmblbzzz]

Aside from which it's a joke that a journey by train may cost £6 one day and £45 the next.

This IMO is the crux of the problem. The fares system is far too complex. If there were fewer ticket types, not only would it be easier to understand but it would also be harder to hide cheaper tickets on menus.

Buses are slow, dirty, noisy, but at least they can be relied upon to a greater extent, than some toy mainline train and are FOC

Pity as I used to like trains, having even worked on the railways occasionally.

I feel that your "FOC" is highly individual! I'm not sure that they're always more reliable than trains either. They are cheaper though.

[Bmblbzzz]

Yes, ticket machines have horrible interfaces. They're focused on selling the most common tickets, not the cheapest.

But I think I remember ticket office reviews finding that many those sell wrong or expensive tickets too.

It's surprising that no ticket machines have done deals with ticket selling websites or apps to adapt their interfaces, which are generally better, but currently hobbled by the need to print tickets touching London or Liverpool onto magnetic striped card.

Yes, getting the cheapest ticket from a ticket office also depends on both staff and passenger knowledge of the system, and on their willingness to use it. As above, the system is way too complex.

When you say ticket machines could adapt the interfaces of websites, are you thinking of the TOC's own website or third-party sites?

[Bmblbzzz]

Where does the "new National Rail Journey Planner" fit into this?
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk

Thanks

Jonathan

In what way is it new?

[mjr]

When you say ticket machines could adapt the interfaces of websites, are you thinking of the TOC's own website or third-party sites?

I was thinking third-party sites because I think all Train Operating Company ticket sales sites are bought in now.

Where does the "new National Rail Journey Planner" fit into this?
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk

In what way is it new?

They put out a press release saying it's new.

It looks like just a new layout and even worse accessibility than before. Same information, including variously confusing or incorrect info about cycle carriage because it can't cope with a company having different policies on different routes and it has no concept of the Ely, Cambridge and London peak-time restrictions.

[PH]

Yes, ticket machines have horrible interfaces. They're focused on selling the most common tickets, not the cheapest.

But I think I remember ticket office reviews finding that many those sell wrong or expensive tickets too.

It's surprising that no ticket machines have done deals with ticket selling websites or apps to adapt their interfaces, which are generally better, but currently hobbled by the need to print tickets touching London or Liverpool onto magnetic striped card.

Yes, getting the cheapest ticket from a ticket office also depends on both staff and passenger knowledge of the system, and on their willingness to use it. As above, the system is way too complex.

The whole mess of the ticketing system means that the cheapest last week may not be the cheapest today. The only way a passenger can find that out is from the same online sources where they could buy a ticket. I don't see any advantage to doing the research then queuing at a ticket office other than maybe saving the 80p booking fee.
I can't see it changing till ticketing is brought under one controlling organisation, that was part of the Great British Railway project that's been watered down. It comes down to asking who's benefit the railway is run for.

When you say ticket machines could adapt the interfaces of websites, are you thinking of the TOC's own website or third-party sites?

I'm pretty sure TOC's websites are run by the same third parties, I think I read that Trainline have a 60% share and I doubt that's just from their own branding.
There was a successful campaign to stop the closure of ticket offices, all along I've considered it the wrong battle.

[Bmblbzzz]

Where does the "new National Rail Journey Planner" fit into this?
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk

In what way is it new?

They put out a press release saying it's new.

It looks like just a new layout and even worse accessibility than before. Same information, including variously confusing or incorrect info about cycle carriage because it can't cope with a company having different policies on different routes and it has no concept of the Ely, Cambridge and London peak-time restrictions.

I haven't seen a press release, but I think the look changed in the summer. I don't think much else has changed apart from the fares! You mention accessibility, which reminds me, a year or more ago I helped a partially sighted friend set up their preferences for this and a couple of other travel-related websites. I guess it needs doing again now!

[Bmblbzzz]

Yes, ticket machines have horrible interfaces. They're focused on selling the most common tickets, not the cheapest.

But I think I remember ticket office reviews finding that many those sell wrong or expensive tickets too.

It's surprising that no ticket machines have done deals with ticket selling websites or apps to adapt their interfaces, which are generally better, but currently hobbled by the need to print tickets touching London or Liverpool onto magnetic striped card.

Yes, getting the cheapest ticket from a ticket office also depends on both staff and passenger knowledge of the system, and on their willingness to use it. As above, the system is way too complex.

The whole mess of the ticketing system means that the cheapest last week may not be the cheapest today. The only way a passenger can find that out is from the same online sources where they could buy a ticket. I don't see any advantage to doing the research then queuing at a ticket office other than maybe saving the 80p booking fee.
I can't see it changing till ticketing is brought under one controlling organisation, that was part of the Great British Railway project that's been watered down. It comes down to asking who's benefit the railway is run for.

Unified ticketing would help remove some anomalies, but it's the variety of ticket types that's the real problem IMO.

[Pendodave]

Apologies if I've missed it upthread, but I thought it was common knowledge that the government has abandoned the idea of central ticketing/simplification:
https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/12/go ... sales.html
They've obviously decided that there's more than one way to close a ticket office...
Now, I work on the railway, so maybe biased. But if you tried to totally break the railway, you'd do what the current administration has done for the last 3 years. It's really depressing, both as an employee and as believer in the importance of functional public transport for the future of our country.
Obviously, doners have to be paid and post-parliament careers considered.

[Jdsk]

Apologies if I've missed it upthread, but I thought it was common knowledge that the government has abandoned the idea of central ticketing/simplification:
https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/12/go ... sales.html
...

It's here:
viewtopic.php?p=1815255#p1815255

but it's so relevant that's it's worth repeating!]

:- (

Jonathan

[TrevA]

The BBC ran a story yesterday about cheaper fares not being available via ticket machines

Train ticket machines charging double online price https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68009768

[Sweep]

Used the ticket office at Preston recently (prefer, see above elsewhere about bike ticket issues) - a joy, whole operation took maybe a minute.
Staff at both preston and skipton seemed to think the gov will have another go at shutting them when they judge the time right though.
On an issue above, can someone explain why anyone ever uses trainline? Why pay a commission to someone for something you can buy online with no commission?

[Jdsk]

The BBC ran a story yesterday about cheaper fares not being available via ticket machines

Train ticket machines charging double online price https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68009768

As upthread:

Review by WHICH

"Ticket machines at train stations charge passengers more than double than what they'd cost online for some journeys, according to new analysis.

Consumer group Which?'s research said some same-day rail tickets were 50% more expensive on average at stations.

The best value fares were either unavailable or hidden among several options on many machines."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68009768

Thanks for that.

"Train station machines can charge more than twice the price of online tickets":
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/tr ... fbN6V5xda8
(which I think is unpaywalled).

Jonathan