Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Jon in Sweden
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by Jon in Sweden »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 11 Feb 2024, 4:42pm
I'm not sure about that. If you burn fewer calories maintaining bodyweight then you have more left over, from what you take in, for energy, whether that's movement or heat. But (and this brings us back closer to the main topic) I'm not at all sure that two people eating the exact same meal will get the same calories (and other nutrients) from it.
Appetite has at least a basis in caloric need. If you don't produce as much heat, you burn fewer calories and therefore require fewer calories. Hence the differences in BMR (base metabolic rate).

BMR calculators online always make me chuckle. An individuals BMR is indeed so individual that it's almost impossible for any kind of online test to guess.

And you're right, calorie absorption from any given meal is also individual and variable. There is a genetic component, but gut microbiome plays a big part too.
Nearholmer
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by Nearholmer »

I don't think the mental aspect has been given enough consideration
Indeed, given that the entire problem, as in how to get people to look after themselves properly, is a problem of the mind, then “the mental aspect” is key, even for people who aren’t suffering diagnosable depression.

I wonder if one useful way of thinking about exercise is as a crime: means; motive; and opportunity.

If you looked at each of us individually, and started chiselling deep into those three things, I think a shocking number of people might lack the motive, either not motivated because ignorant of the penalties of not doing, and/or not motivated due to a lack of sense of self-worth, and/or not motivated because of a generalised sense of hopelessness or powerlessness.

There was some talk of CBA back up thread, and you’ve got to ask yourself why a person CBA something that is very likely to give them a longer healthy life? Maybe, just possibly, they don’t think they deserve one, or see a long, and crucially, happy life as a goal so far out of their reach as to not be worth bothering about, or even are subconsciously committing suicide very, very slowly because life ain’t all that much fun.

Fix the environmental toxicity that saps good mental health, and I reckon physical health would improve without asking ….. better diet, better exercise, people would just do them, without even thinking about it.

Tough on CBA; tough on the causes of CBA?
Carlton green
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by Carlton green »

I wonder if one useful way of thinking about exercise is as a crime: means; motive; and opportunity.
I think that a very good way of putting things. As a youngster I was busy playing outside but certainly lacked means and opportunity to develop what physique I had. My parents were from a generation of individuals who worked so physically hard that they didn’t go looking for more exercise and conserved what energy they had for the next challenge. Attitudes and social circumstances have changed over the decades but if you put the right means; motives; and opportunities before people then you’ll very likely get them taking more exercise.

The original post is quite interesting and so are the original poster’s comments too. I can only think that different approaches work for different people and that is something I’ve learnt the hard way. My Mrs is a gym user and swimmer, pretty able, but the thought of cycling for pleasure just doesn’t appeal to her; I’m the reverse in that, gym use and swimming seem boring to me but cycling lights my fire.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
Pendodave
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by Pendodave »

Nearholmer wrote: 11 Feb 2024, 7:08pm Tough on CBA; tough on the causes of CBA?
Hmmm
I don't think you give CBA enough credit for how deeply ingrained it is in the human psyche.
I am fit, generally motivated and have pretty much every advantage in life. And I quite often CBA.
I reckon you'd pretty much have to make the whole population too poor to buy too much food, while simultaneously closing down the entire ultra processed food industry.
Go back to about 1965 in other words.
Nearholmer
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by Nearholmer »

That last bit was a bit of a joke, really.

I think you’d have to close down the entire motoring industry too, or more likely make motoring too expensive for c60% of the population, as it was in 1965, too.

But, I can’t imagine a manifesto based on reducing material prosperity to the levels of over half a century ago would attract widespread support, however well-meaning it was, and however much we seem to be going in steps in that direction while pretending not.
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al_yrpal
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by al_yrpal »

Cornwall active travel scheme.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-c ... 241419.amp

Good luck around Gunnislake!

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Jon in Sweden
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by Jon in Sweden »

al_yrpal wrote: 12 Feb 2024, 8:14am Cornwall active travel scheme.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-c ... 241419.amp

Good luck around Gunnislake!

Al
Cornwall would be a very tough place to encourage widescale adoption of cycling. I've worked there, but I've not cycled there. The issues are:

* Incredibly narrow lanes. Often so narrow that a bike would have to come to complete stop and climb into the hedge to allow a car to pass.

* Some savage inclines. I've routinely come across 25% inclines on the aforementioned lanes. Most casual cyclists would have to push the bike up the hill, and descending them requires balls of steel.

* Heavy tourist traffic. Lots and lots of people who don't know how to safely drive in the lanes.

* Terrible weather - it rains frequently and heavily. This couples with the narrow lanes to produce....

* Lots of mud on the asphalt. In Devon, I almost had a head on collision when driving only 25mph due to zero traction on farm mud. After heavy rain or after periods of farming activity, a gravel bike is required to obtain traction.

I'm not saying that you couldn't enjoy cycling there as an enthusiast, but your average Joe doing a typical 15km route in Cornwall will at best arrive covered in mud and stressed out, at worst will skid into a hedge or get flattened by a tractor/motorhome. I honestly don't think that there is anywhere in England that is worse suited to cycling.
Carlton green
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by Carlton green »

Nearholmer wrote: 11 Feb 2024, 8:13pm I think you’d have to close down the entire motoring industry too, or more likely make motoring too expensive for c60% of the population, as it was in 1965, too.

But, I can’t imagine a manifesto based on reducing material prosperity to the levels of over half a century ago would attract widespread support, however well-meaning it was, and however much we seem to be going in steps in that direction while pretending not.
I suspect that prosperity is already reducing and that it can’t be sustained without cheap and abundant sources of power, which we haven’t got. Oil will increase in price (for various reasons supply is limited), gas will go the same way, new nuclear build has failed and renewables are a maturing source that has limited continuity of supply. Public transport and working from home / remotely will be the only way to keep the (vast majority of) workers actually in work places. Some might cycle but fitness levels, distance and terrain cap what’ll be possible.
al_yrpal wrote: 12 Feb 2024, 8:14am Cornwall active travel scheme.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-c ... 241419.amp

Good luck around Gunnislake!

Al
I don’t doubt that folk can and do cycle in Cornwall but my recollection of the place is that it’s a place needing many low gears and excellent brakes. The weather can be awful too, not with cold but with wind and rain. Active travel for commuting is probably possible but don’t expect to commute more than a few miles (which might well be all that some folk need to do) and be prepared to walk some hills rather than cycle up them.

To be fair not all of Cornwall is hard cycling country and there are some relatively flat parts. If you look at Google maps and select the terrain option then you’ll get some idea of the challenges. If you want flat then the railway engineers / surveyors of old seem to have found some, but it’s in short supply.
Last edited by Carlton green on 12 Feb 2024, 9:13am, edited 2 times in total.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
Jdsk
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 11 Feb 2024, 1:26pm And the whole thread would be a lot more helpful if it moved on to discussion of what's known and what isn't known about interventions that would improve the fitness and health of "the general population".
al_yrpal wrote: 12 Feb 2024, 8:14am Cornwall active travel scheme.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-c ... 241419.amp
...
Yes, social prescribing is one of the main types of intervention.

Details of that scheme:
Active Travel Social Prescribing (ATSP) Pilot
https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/health-and- ... tsp-pilot/

Jonathan
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al_yrpal
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by al_yrpal »

Flatish Somerset would be a better place to start. Our Tory MP Rebecca Pow has been championing a Taunton to Wellington cycle path. They just finished one near near Dunster and Minehead.
There are lots of cycle paths here in Taunton but with the Council millions in the red I cant see a new route becoming top priority any time soon.

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/som ... 081293.amp

Al
Last edited by al_yrpal on 12 Feb 2024, 10:03am, edited 2 times in total.
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Carlton green
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by Carlton green »

al_yrpal wrote: 12 Feb 2024, 9:21am Flatish Somerset would be a better place to start. Our Tory MP Rebecca Pow has been championing a Taunton to Wellington cycle path. They just finished one near near Dunster and Minehead.
There are lots of cycle paths here in Taunton but with the Council millions in the red I cant see a new route becoming top priority any time soon.

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/som ... 081293.amp

Al
Somerset, flat 😂. Well, I suppose parts of it are and those parts are often subject to flooding. That said I think Somerset an overlooked and generally lovely place - I’d certainly consider moving back there.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
DaveBeck
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by DaveBeck »

[/quote]

Cornwall would be a very tough place to encourage widescale adoption of cycling. I've worked there, but I've not cycled there. The issues are:

* Incredibly narrow lanes. Often so narrow that a bike would have to come to complete stop and climb into the hedge to allow a car to pass.

* Some savage inclines. I've routinely come across 25% inclines on the aforementioned lanes. Most casual cyclists would have to push the bike up the hill, and descending them requires balls of steel.

* Heavy tourist traffic. Lots and lots of people who don't know how to safely drive in the lanes.

* Terrible weather - it rains frequently and heavily. This couples with the narrow lanes to produce....

* Lots of mud on the asphalt. In Devon, I almost had a head on collision when driving only 25mph due to zero traction on farm mud. After heavy rain or after periods of farming activity, a gravel bike is required to obtain traction.

I'm not saying that you couldn't enjoy cycling there as an enthusiast, but your average Joe doing a typical 15km route in Cornwall will at best arrive covered in mud and stressed out, at worst will skid into a hedge or get flattened by a tractor/motorhome. I honestly don't think that there is anywhere in England that is worse suited to cycling.
[/quote]


Hi Jon

Speaking as someone who makes a living from leading rides, and introducing people to cycling and in particular, cycling in Cornwall, I think I'd take issue with some of this. I have cycled from one end of the country to the other, and from my experience it's not really that much different from anywhere else. There are good bits and bad bits.

Yes, there are some steep hills, narrow lanes, some muddy ones, (usually ones that you are directed onto by a certain nation charity supposedly promoting cycling). There's the occasional idiot in a car and just like the rest of the Country, sometimes it rains. But there are a lot of places that aren't like that, with spectacular views, brilliant cafes and some really good cycling trails.

Where this initiative will work well, is having people to steer the average Joe's away from the places you must have ridden on and towards the good bits. Which and I know I'm biased; being Cornish and cycling here, far outnumber the bad bits.

If you are ever down this way, get in touch and I'll take you out and show you.

Take care,

Dave B
mattsccm
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by mattsccm »

"but how to motivate them?"
Better for most of society to let them die. We have too many people.
Jon in Sweden
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Re: Why are the general population resistant to getting fit?

Post by Jon in Sweden »

DaveBeck wrote: 12 Feb 2024, 5:17pm Hi Jon

Speaking as someone who makes a living from leading rides, and introducing people to cycling and in particular, cycling in Cornwall, I think I'd take issue with some of this. I have cycled from one end of the country to the other, and from my experience it's not really that much different from anywhere else. There are good bits and bad bits.

Yes, there are some steep hills, narrow lanes, some muddy ones, (usually ones that you are directed onto by a certain nation charity supposedly promoting cycling). There's the occasional idiot in a car and just like the rest of the Country, sometimes it rains. But there are a lot of places that aren't like that, with spectacular views, brilliant cafes and some really good cycling trails.

Where this initiative will work well, is having people to steer the average Joe's away from the places you must have ridden on and towards the good bits. Which and I know I'm biased; being Cornish and cycling here, far outnumber the bad bits.

If you are ever down this way, get in touch and I'll take you out and show you.

Take care,

Dave B
I greatly appreciate you taking the time to illustrate your love for your county and I respect that. I'd personally enjoy the hills and challenges that Cornwall has to offer, but I am (I have been told) a masochist who likes to climb Porlock Hill for fun.

I'm not often in the UK anymore, but thank you for your invite. All the best for your cycling exploits. :D
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