State Pension

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francovendee
Posts: 3141
Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: State Pension

Post by francovendee »

Jdsk wrote: 5 Feb 2024, 1:19pm
francovendee wrote: 5 Feb 2024, 1:02pm
Psamathe wrote: 5 Feb 2024, 10:41am Interesting snip from the atricle linked to above

Which rather opens the issue highlighting how poor our governance is at actually addressing issues. Rather than raise the retirement age, why not address the "... predominantly due to preventable ill health". That addresses several issues rather than bodge that isn't really a solution.
If the population is less healthy than it was then we need to be honest and have a truly independent inquiry on the cause.
I heard today that there is concern over the health of under 5's. Obesity, ant-vax and lack of dental care suggested as the cause.
If we could look beyond one political party using the inquiry to score points from the opposition then just maybe a plan to improve the nations health could be created. Then it would be up to the electorate to choose which party offers the best solution. We should hold their feet to the fire if they renege on promises.
I'd concentrate on how healthy we could be rather than any comparison with the past.

We know in great detail the nature of current poor health.

We know a fair bit about what is likely to reduce the burden.

We're very bad at implementing it. And, as in another thread, most of the national policies that would make a big contribution aren't thought of as "healthcare". They include education, food, transport...

Jonathan
What is missing is an independent assessment that lays out what needs to be done, along with the costs, the effect on peoples lives,the benefits and timescale. The latter is perhaps the most important. As a nation if we embark on measures to improve the public's health it won't be achieved in one party's term in office. It would be tempting for any party to backslide and roll back under pressure the measures that may be unpopular with some voters.
The level of mental health problems seems to be high, is there a reason for this? Pressure of modern life, poverty, drug and alcohol use or are we quicker to find and label mental issues?

I worry for people who struggle to lose weight, they should be encouraged to, certainly without shaming but at the same time it needs to be emphasised that carrying really excessive weight isn't healthy in the long term. Sure, you can be fit and fat but it may not remain this way and carrying the weight will have stressed parts of the body that will deteriorate in older age anyway so making things worse.
I carried a lot of weight in my twenties, mostly due to what I ate and the amount. I'd also started driving so stopped cycling.
Seeing my step father collapse at 54 with a heart attack shook me. He was strong, fit, but weighed over 20 stone. He wasn't above 5'-6" so obese in today's terms.
As my own father died at 47, but not from heart problems, I thought I ought to try and get a little fitter so I ate a little less and started walking whenever possible. I should mention I'm not particularly strong willed so for me it wasn't easy to say no to those extra helpings. :D
djnotts
Posts: 2995
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: State Pension

Post by djnotts »

A view of pension levels:

"A single person will need £31,300 a year for a moderate income in retirement, according to a pensions industry body.

The rising cost of living and an expectation to offer financial support to grandchildren had pushed up the income required by £8,000, it said.

The Pensions and Lifetime Savings Association (PLSA) uses evidence from focus groups to make the estimates.

It is intended as a guide for those planning their retirement savings.

The calculations are pitched at three different levels - minimum, moderate and comfortable - and are developed and maintained independently by the Centre for Research in Social Policy at Loughborough University.

They estimated that a single person needed £14,400 a year for a minimum income, and £43,100 a year for a comfortable retirement....." (BBC News)

I now know that my state pension of £10,543 p.a. renders my life distinctly less than comfortable. I shall adjust my life style and mental health accordingly. Think I need anti-depressants. If only one could see GPs....
Nearholmer
Posts: 3809
Joined: 26 Mar 2022, 7:13am

Re: State Pension

Post by Nearholmer »

One of the many tangled points in all this is that if you ran a similar calculation for single people and couples of working age, to find “minimum, moderate , and comfortable” income levels, it would highlight exactly the same issue: that a significant number of people can barely get by on their income.

Most working age people have higher housing costs than most pensioners, and many more working age people than pensioners are bringing up children, so naturally the amounts needed are higher, and when you start looking at what average household incomes are, the problem becomes starkly clear.

I’m not sure where this takes the discussion, except perhaps back to The British Problem that the cake is really a bit too small to go round, and that is made worse by it being cut into very different-sized slices.
Pendodave
Posts: 520
Joined: 3 Jun 2020, 8:27am

Re: State Pension

Post by Pendodave »

djnotts wrote: 7 Feb 2024, 9:10am They estimated that a single person needed £14,400 a year for a minimum income, and £43,100 a year for a comfortable retirement....." (BBC News)
Is that pre or post tax?
£43000 in net income presupposes £53000 (ish) in pre tax income.
£43000 gross would deliver only about £35000
Those are pretty significant differences, it's a shame that it isn't made clear.
djnotts
Posts: 2995
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: State Pension

Post by djnotts »

Gross or net indeed an important but missing detail!
Whichever, I have clearly never been "comfortable"!
roubaixtuesday
Posts: 5760
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: State Pension

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Pendodave wrote: 7 Feb 2024, 9:58am
djnotts wrote: 7 Feb 2024, 9:10am They estimated that a single person needed £14,400 a year for a minimum income, and £43,100 a year for a comfortable retirement....." (BBC News)
Is that pre or post tax?
£43000 in net income presupposes £53000 (ish) in pre tax income.
£43000 gross would deliver only about £35000
Those are pretty significant differences, it's a shame that it isn't made clear.
Seems to be after tax

https://www.retirementlivingstandards.org.uk/details
Psamathe
Posts: 17526
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: State Pension

Post by Psamathe »

Pendodave wrote: 7 Feb 2024, 9:58am
djnotts wrote: 7 Feb 2024, 9:10am They estimated that a single person needed £14,400 a year for a minimum income, and £43,100 a year for a comfortable retirement....." (BBC News)
Is that pre or post tax?
£43000 in net income presupposes £53000 (ish) in pre tax income.
£43000 gross would deliver only about £35000
Those are pretty significant differences, it's a shame that it isn't made clear.
Also paying rent, paying mortgage or fully owned house?

Ian
Pendodave
Posts: 520
Joined: 3 Jun 2020, 8:27am

Re: State Pension

Post by Pendodave »

Blimey. That makes it a whole lot of cash. That's about the 90th percentile of earnings.
I tried to source that, but only got 2020-1 info from government uk
briansnail
Posts: 795
Joined: 1 Sep 2019, 3:07pm

Re: State Pension

Post by briansnail »

They estimated that a single person needed £14,400 a year for a minimum income, and £43,100 a year for a comfortable retirement....." (BBC News)
Some one queried does that include rent? This is very important.Housing is where all the pension money goes.They now want to increase the pension age to 71 for the people around 50.Sensible.
For those lucky enough to own property.Pension life is cushy.Unless your unfortunate enough to divorce.

My take.Many Many on this CTC forum will disagree.No matter my dark glasses and hat are ready .I have booked a long cycling holiday. Pay a enhanced pension to those who RENT and means test it.The reality is good STATE pensions for all.Is not feasible.

1-United Kingdom is still a great nation.However we do not have the income anymore to pay for generous pensions.If politicians cheerfully keep ignoring debt all over the world ? People have forgotten Bear Sterns and N .Reckoning can be delayed but will come with a crash.

2-The majority of Young people are struggling on low wages.Young people are not having children.They cannot afford it.You need two incomes one to pay for food.One to pay for rent/mortgages.Their contributions go to paying our pensions.Their children generation will NOT generate the money to pay their pensions.To generate £10k for just 10 years one needs £100k in a pension pot.20 years double that.(Ignore compounding).Kids are now moving out at 30.

3-With Artificial and robotics.Jobs worldwide will take a hit.Wages will be low.Unless you are or married to a plumber.In which case its like the lottery.Your set for life.

No one argues against high state pensions.No one knows how to pay for it.
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I ride Brompton,Hetchins 531
pete75
Posts: 16355
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: State Pension

Post by pete75 »

briansnail wrote: 10 Feb 2024, 2:49pm
They estimated that a single person needed £14,400 a year for a minimum income, and £43,100 a year for a comfortable retirement....." (BBC News)
Some one queried does that include rent? This is very important.Housing is where all the pension money goes.They now want to increase the pension age to 71 for the people around 50.Sensible.
For those lucky enough to own property.Pension life is cushy.Unless your unfortunate enough to divorce.

My take.Many Many on this CTC forum will disagree.No matter my dark glasses and hat are ready .I have booked a long cycling holiday. Pay a enhanced pension to those who RENT and means test it.The reality is good STATE pensions for all.Is not feasible.

1-United Kingdom is still a great nation.However we do not have the income anymore to pay for generous pensions.If politicians cheerfully keep ignoring debt all over the world ? People have forgotten Bear Sterns and N .Reckoning can be delayed but will come with a crash.

2-The majority of Young people are struggling on low wages.Young people are not having children.They cannot afford it.You need two incomes one to pay for food.One to pay for rent/mortgages.Their contributions go to paying our pensions.Their children generation will NOT generate the money to pay their pensions.To generate £10k for just 10 years one needs £100k in a pension pot.20 years double that.(Ignore compounding).Kids are now moving out at 30.

3-With Artificial and robotics.Jobs worldwide will take a hit.Wages will be low.Unless you are or married to a plumber.In which case its like the lottery.Your set for life.

No one argues against high state pensions.No one knows how to pay for it.
***************************************
I ride Brompton,Hetchins 531
Wherever did you get the idea state pensions are generous in the UK. They're not even adequate.
There is help with rent for pensioners or others on a low income, Housing Benefit.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
djnotts
Posts: 2995
Joined: 26 May 2008, 12:51pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: State Pension

Post by djnotts »

^ That housing costs are not reflected in general benefits, including pensions, is readily demonstrated:

"The estimated annual cost of housing benefit is now £23.4bn, more than the total running costs of government departments including the Home Office, the Ministry of Justice and the Department for Transport. Only health and social care, education and defence account for larger shares of day-to-day spending.14 Nov 2022"
Psamathe
Posts: 17526
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: State Pension

Post by Psamathe »

briansnail wrote: 10 Feb 2024, 2:49pm ...
My take.Many Many on this CTC forum will disagree.No matter my dark glasses and hat are ready .I have booked a long cycling holiday. Pay a enhanced pension to those who RENT and means test it.The reality is good STATE pensions for all.Is not feasible.
...
To me, if you means test state pension benefits it will dissuade people from making their own provision to top-up state offerings. Why put aside money whilst of working age in order to get reduced state benefits once retired? Rather blow all your income whilst still earning and get max. from state after retiring.

When many compare costs between mortgage and renting they overlook a lot of costs in relation to ownership beyond mortgage. When renting the landlord pays eg decorating costs, maintenance costs, provides white goods (and replaces when they go wrong), building repairs, etc. all of which can add a fair bit to costs of ownership not incurred by somebody renting.

Then there are the complications. (Ignoring that I don't have kids) I "sell" my house to my kids and pay them rent so I get a bigger state pension ...

Ian
Nearholmer
Posts: 3809
Joined: 26 Mar 2022, 7:13am

Re: State Pension

Post by Nearholmer »

Through personal experience and close family, I’m “switched on” to housing costs for:

- owner occupier, no mortgage, freehold house

- renting from private landlord

- renting from housing association

- owner occupier of leasehold flat in housing association managed retirement complex

I’d say that size-for-size, there isn’t much in it cost-wise, except possibly private renting, and even then not if “all in” costs are considered, because the first involves cyclical high-cost elements like exterior re-decoration, occasional repairs etc, and the final one involves monthly service charges to pay for the same.

One thing that is noticeable is that a proportion of older owner occupiers simply skimp on maintenance and repairs to make ends meet, hence the classic “in need of some renovation/refurbishment” houses that come into the market.
Last edited by Nearholmer on 12 Feb 2024, 4:27pm, edited 1 time in total.
toontra
Posts: 1145
Joined: 21 Dec 2007, 11:01am
Location: London

Re: State Pension

Post by toontra »

Nearholmer wrote: 10 Feb 2024, 6:10pm
One thing that is noticeable is that a proportion of older owner occupiers simply skimp on maintenance and repairs to make ends meet, hence the classic “in need of some renovation/refurbishment” houses that come into the market.
Not necessarily because of financial constraints. Very old people often don't see much point in repairs or redecoration when they probably won't be around to get the benefit. That was certainly the case with my parents. I'd say the majority of the very elderly are content to keep things as they are and don't want the disruption of building work or see the need for it.
briansnail
Posts: 795
Joined: 1 Sep 2019, 3:07pm

Re: State Pension

Post by briansnail »

Most working age people have higher housing costs than most pensioners, and many more working age people than pensioners are bringing up children, so naturally the amounts needed are higher, and when you start looking at what average household incomes are, the problem becomes starkly clear.
Jeremy Hunt is now looking at allowing young people to cash in pensions to use as a deposit for a house.
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